Is something Burning in OC

kioti said:
Holy Jim wouldn't be a mudslide problem in dry weather. (Landslide if it burns, I guess.) It could conceivably have a conditional closure, like Maple Springs Road.
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The road in might be, from mudslided in burned trabuco canyon flowing past the confluence. But maybe the road would be open just up to HJ parking lot, or open to bikes even if closed to vehicles. or just closed during rain.
 
sir crashalot said:
coldwater
indian truck trail
holy jim
west horsethief
east horsethief
trabuco
north main divide
los pinos
bell ridge
yeager
possibly san juan/chiquito
possibly joplin

this is a nightmare
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Going off this and the current perimeter map (if it's accurate)
So far LHJ looks OK; though I'm certain it will be closed about as long as others due to damage above
San Juan, Chiquito and Joplin all look OK - based on the map and hoping they hold about where they are.
 
Cornholio said:
In his second pic? That’s a light, I thought the same thing two nights ago but fortunately it’s just that. Peak looks ok so far this morning.
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Thankfully!

They put down a healthy perimeter around the peak yesterday. It's safe, hopefully... The fire retardant is visible from down here. A nice ring around the last couple of switchbacks.

Maddog said:
Obviously someone in authority "escalated" the situation and failed to show the youngster adequate "sensitivity" to the environmental issues which caused this "dis-enfranchised" youth to resort to such behavior! That's the line of :poop: I got when a kid threatened me with "I'm gonna Cap your a$$" after dropping several "F-Yous!" when I wouldn't let him leave my class to talk to a friend!o_O I got out just in time!:thumbsup: Sorry for the derail!
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Nope... I get it. I had dozens of incidents like the one you describe above, plus a few dozen more that were physical. Also had the wife followed to our daycare, threatened while at a theater when she was 5 months pregnant, and many more that I've forgotten...

Fortunately, school consequences were swift, even if the legal consequences were not.
 
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BonsaiNut said:
As others have said... perhaps there is a silver lining if this means we can rebuild better than before. Particularly West Horsethief - if we could make that trail rideable it would open up all kinds of new options.
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WHT is rideable........if you're Tinker :Roflmao

I just keep reminding myself that Oaks bounced back pretty fast after the fire. Hopefully all this will too, and since it doesn't rain here anymore we probably don't have much risk of a mudslide.
 
Faust29 said:
Thankfully!

They put down a healthy perimeter around the peak yesterday. It's safe, hopefully... The fire retardant is visible from down here. A nice ring around the last couple of switchbacks.



Nope... I get it. I had dozens of incidents like the one you describe above, plus a few dozen more that were physical. Also had the wife followed to our daycare, threatened while at a theater when she was 5 months pregnant, and many more that I've forgotten...

Fortunately, school consequences were swift, even if the legal consequences were not.
Click to expand...

Further derail....We have 2.5 guys in our riding group that teach in Vista & Oceanside high schools and another that was the school resource officer for Carlsbad PD for (2) years. The latter thought it was going to be a cush/dream job but it was just the opposite. He escaped after (2) years and just got back on a motor. Anyway, the stories they tell me where nothing can be/is done with these kids nowadays is literally mind blowing. If I was a dictator, I'd euthanize kids for less than things that are essentially ignored. From what I gather, most of the disciplinary direction is coming from the school board administration.
 
Aviatrix said:
I just keep reminding myself that Oaks bounced back pretty fast after the fire. Hopefully all this will too, and since it doesn't rain here anymore we probably don't have much risk of a mudslide.
Click to expand...

Oaks and San Clemente Singletracks bounced back very fast, but last time they closed a trail up in the Santa Ana's due to fire, it was closed a very long time. I don't really ride anything that might be affected at this point other than San Juan ... I really hope that one is spared.
 
I rode the ANF after the Station Fire, against the closure orders, so I could see for myself what happened up there.
The ashen moonscape was littered with the charred remains of small rodents, ravens calling with glee at the newfound feast.
Hot spots puffed smoke and ashy dust devils blew across the fireroad.
The road and trails stood out, tan against grey. Already small rockfall and debris cones were forming. Traction was great, vision outstanding.
There were no signs of any firefight that occurred in the area. It was left to burn while the fight was elsewhere.
The real trouble began when the rains hit. Trickles became torrents and the naked hillsides began to fall. Trails were filled in and ruined by slumps, debris and downed trees. Thousands of trees.
With the moisture came the infamous poodledog bush. A fragrant, green, soil protector that happens to pack a punch of inflammatory oils and spices. Expect five to seven years of that.
Nine years now and things are getting back to normal. Still have some mostly political closures but people are back riding and hiking and whatever.
The trails are in the best shape I've ever seen, though some have been significantly smoothed and P-lined.
Yes, you all have lost a lot. With some hard work and patience, you can get it back.
Patience grasshoppers...
 
Aviatrix said:
WHT is rideable........if you're Tinker :Roflmao

I just keep reminding myself that Oaks bounced back pretty fast after the fire. Hopefully all this will too, and since it doesn't rain here anymore we probably don't have much risk of a mudslide.
Click to expand...

The forested shady loamy character of upper trabuco trail will not recover for a long time. It will rain again, socal had plenty of rain in winter 16-17 and the road in to Hj was covered by a mudslide from the measly 50 acre Fern fire.
 
mtbMike said:
Further derail....We have 2.5 guys in our riding group that teach in Vista & Oceanside high schools and another that was the school resource officer for Carlsbad PD for (2) years. The latter thought it was going to be a cush/dream job but it was just the opposite. He escaped after (2) years and just got back on a motor. Anyway, the stories they tell me where nothing can be/is done with these kids nowadays is literally mind blowing. If I was a dictator, I'd euthanize kids for less than things that are essentially ignored. From what I gather, most of the disciplinary direction is coming from the school board administration.
Click to expand...

I always had at least 3 SROs on campus at all times... And almost every one of them made Sergeant within a year or two. :thumbsup: Lots of crazy stories there... I couldn't imagine working in this area. NFW.

Sorry for the derail... Back to your regularly scheduled fire programming. And smoke programming. I was in Lowes in RSM this morning, and quite a few of the workers were wearing masks, because the store was full of smoke. :gag:
 
sir crashalot said:
The road in might be, from mudslided in burned trabuco canyon flowing past the confluence. But maybe the road would be open just up to HJ parking lot, or open to bikes even if closed to vehicles. or just closed during rain.
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Well, if they don't allow the Trabuco Canyon cabin residents to rebuild, Trabuco Canyon may just turn into single track down to the parking lot.

And on the subject of our accused arsonist... he isn't cooperating in prison:

https://www.pasadenastarnews.com/20...o-leave-jail-cell-for-first-court-appearance/
 
Obsidian said:
Oaks and San Clemente Singletracks bounced back very fast, but last time they closed a trail up in the Santa Ana's due to fire, it was closed a very long time. I don't really ride anything that might be affected at this point other than San Juan ... I really hope that one is spared.
Click to expand...

Motorway... Closed for one year, and then extended for a second year because they thought it was going to be a rainy season. If they apply the same thinking here, you'll find me crying often.
 
Aviatrix said:
WHT is rideable........if you're Tinker :Roflmao

I just keep reminding myself that Oaks bounced back pretty fast after the fire. Hopefully all this will too, and since it doesn't rain here anymore we probably don't have much risk of a mudslide.
Click to expand...
Obsidian said:
Oaks and San Clemente Singletracks bounced back very fast, but last time they closed a trail up in the Santa Ana's due to fire, it was closed a very long time. I don't really ride anything that might be affected at this point other than San Juan ... I really hope that one is spared.
Click to expand...


Also, Oaks burned 10 years ago.....areas out in SA’s haven’t burned in 40 years. Lots of fuel, but the geography in the SA’s are a lot steeper than the Oaks.
 
Obsidian said:
Oaks and San Clemente Singletracks bounced back very fast, but last time they closed a trail up in the Santa Ana's due to fire, it was closed a very long time. I don't really ride anything that might be affected at this point other than San Juan ... I really hope that one is spared.
Click to expand...

True that.....I guess there's less incentive to open the CNF vs. a county park.

sir crashalot said:
The forested shady loamy character of upper trabuco trail will not recover for a long time. It will rain again, socal had plenty of rain in winter 16-17 and the road in to Hj was covered by a mudslide from the measly 50 acre Fern fire.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I'd call it "plenty" for 16-17, but I was being facetious in my post ;) I always loved that part of Trabuco that had the ferns and felt magical to ride through....sad now it's gonna be like riding in a fireplace.
 
sir crashalot said:
The forested shady loamy character of upper trabuco trail will not recover for a long time. It will rain again, socal had plenty of rain in winter 16-17 and the road in to Hj was covered by a mudslide from the measly 50 acre Fern fire.
Click to expand...

It all depends on the oaks. If the oaks survived, you might be surprised how fast that canyon recovers. Those coast live oaks have thick bark for a reason, and deep roots. After a fire you will often find saplings that were burned to the soil level - resprouting and growing like mad because they no longer have shade competition. Some of those oaks are well over 100 years old and have survived fires before. Let us hope for the best.
 
rossage said:
I rode the ANF after the Station Fire, against the closure orders, so I could see for myself what happened up there.
The ashen moonscape was littered with the charred remains of small rodents, ravens calling with glee at the newfound feast.
Hot spots puffed smoke and ashy dust devils blew across the fireroad.
The road and trails stood out, tan against grey. Already small rockfall and debris cones were forming. Traction was great, vision outstanding.
There were no signs of any firefight that occurred in the area. It was left to burn while the fight was elsewhere.
The real trouble began when the rains hit. Trickles became torrents and the naked hillsides began to fall. Trails were filled in and ruined by slumps, debris and downed trees. Thousands of trees.
With the moisture came the infamous poodledog bush. A fragrant, green, soil protector that happens to pack a punch of inflammatory oils and spices. Expect five to seven years of that.
Nine years now and things are getting back to normal. Still have some mostly political closures but people are back riding and hiking and whatever.
The trails are in the best shape I've ever seen, though some have been significantly smoothed and P-lined.
Yes, you all have lost a lot. With some hard work and patience, you can get it back.
Patience grasshoppers...
Click to expand...
Does one need a license to be so poetic? ;)
 
BonsaiNut said:
It all depends on the oaks. If the oaks survived, you might be surprised how fast that canyon recovers. Those coast live oaks have thick bark for a reason, and deep roots. After a fire you will often find saplings that were burned to the soil level - resprouting and growing like mad because they no longer have shade competition. Some of those oaks are well over 100 years old and have survived fires before. Let us hope for the best.
Click to expand...
Im referring to the bigcone douglas firs, coulter pines, and madrones near the top. but yeah, its possible some if not many trees survived along the creek bottoms. The fire in Aliso a while back, may oak trees within the perimeter along the creek survived, and on the completely burned areas, new growth is already sprouting up from the stumps.
 
Faust29 said:
Motorway... Closed for one year, and then extended for a second year because they thought it was going to be a rainy season. If they apply the same thinking here, you'll find me crying often.
Click to expand...

...and then they sent some people up the trail to "repair it" who had no idea what they were doing. THAT damage took two years to recover from :)

Let's hope they send @kioti up to fix things. And I will definitely be on the volunteer list!
 
sir crashalot said:
Im referring to the bigcone douglas firs, coulter pines, and madrones near the top. but yeah, its possible some if not many trees survived along the creek bottoms.
Click to expand...

Yeah things are definitely not looking good for the conifers. That stand of conifers to the right as you are on Main Divide approaching the Trabuco trail head (from the north) is gonna be gone.

I just know upper Trabuco is loaded with oaks. So many oaks, in fact, that several times I have considered the acorns on the trail to be more hazardous than when I ride it in the rain with water flowing down the center :) It can be like trying to ride over a field of ball-bearings :)
 
A photo that same friend posted on his FB account. I think he said it was in a local paper and was taken from the Canyon Lake area.

4DD230EC-B4E6-466F-966D-731515CB91DB.jpeg
 
BonsaiNut said:
...and then they sent some people up the trail to "repair it" who had no idea what they were doing. THAT damage took two years to recover from :)

Let's hope they send @kioti up to fix things. And I will definitely be on the volunteer list!
Click to expand...
For some reason, I don't think they let USFS volunteers work on the Motorway during that closure. It would usually be the Warriors, who would've had it dialed.

I wouldn't mind being involved in a reroute of West Horsethief (to reduce the gradient and round out the turns) and help restore Trabuco to its current alignment, if possible. That's such a great trail.
 
kioti said:
For some reason, I don't think they let USFS volunteers work on the Motorway during that closure. It would usually be the Warriors, who would've had it dialed.

I wouldn't mind being involved in a reroute of West Horsethief (to reduce the gradient and round out the turns) and help restore Trabuco to its current alignment, if possible. That's such a great trail.
Click to expand...
Yup, I love Trabuco.
 
kioti said:
For some reason, I don't think they let USFS volunteers work on the Motorway during that closure. It would usually be the Warriors, who would've had it dialed.

I wouldn't mind being involved in a reroute of West Horsethief (to reduce the gradient and round out the turns) and help restore Trabuco to its current alignment, if possible. That's such a great trail.
Click to expand...

Jim you're normally in the know on these things... once the smoke settles on this tragedy, perhaps we can put together a proposal to discuss with the ranger? Something simple, but with a lot of public momentum (and volunteers) behind it?

Objectives:
Repair fire damage / stabilize trail for all users
Reroute trail to reduce gradient and round out turns

Phases:
(I) Trail assessment / State of the Trail
(II) Develop / evaluate options to reroute trail
(III) Present to CNF Staff for approval
(IV) Finalize execution plan / schedule work
(V) Execute

The thought of a rideable West Horsethief gets me excited :)
 
kioti said:
For some reason, I don't think they let USFS volunteers work on the Motorway during that closure. It would usually be the Warriors, who would've had it dialed.

I wouldn't mind being involved in a reroute of West Horsethief (to reduce the gradient and round out the turns) and help restore Trabuco to its current alignment, if possible. That's such a great trail.
Click to expand...


Yeah, we were not allowed on it during the closure. California Conservation Corps. Were out doing the work.
 
BonsaiNut said:
Jim you're normally in the know on these things... once the smoke settles on this tragedy, perhaps we can put together a proposal to discuss with the ranger? Something simple, but with a lot of public momentum (and volunteers) behind it?

Objectives:
Repair fire damage / stabilize trail for all users
Reroute trail to reduce gradient and round out turns

Phases:
(I) Trail assessment / State of the Trail
(II) Develop / evaluate options to reroute trail
(III) Present to CNF Staff for approval
(IV) Finalize execution plan / schedule work
(V) Execute

The thought of a rideable West Horsethief gets me excited :)
Click to expand...

Am I the only one who likes the HAB up WHT?
 
kioti said:
For some reason, I don't think they let USFS volunteers work on the Motorway during that closure. It would usually be the Warriors, who would've had it dialed.

I wouldn't mind being involved in a reroute of West Horsethief (to reduce the gradient and round out the turns) and help restore Trabuco to its current alignment, if possible. That's such a great trail.
Click to expand...

Fires still burning and these guys are plotting trail reroutes.
Way to make that lemonade!
 
BonsaiNut said:
Jim you're normally in the know on these things... once the smoke settles on this tragedy, perhaps we can put together a proposal to discuss with the ranger? Something simple, but with a lot of public momentum (and volunteers) behind it?

Objectives:
Repair fire damage / stabilize trail for all users
Reroute trail to reduce gradient and round out turns

Phases:
(I) Trail assessment / State of the Trail
(II) Develop / evaluate options to reroute trail
(III) Present to CNF Staff for approval
(IV) Finalize execution plan / schedule work
(V) Execute

The thought of a rideable West Horsethief gets me excited :)
Click to expand...


They will send in the BAER team:

https://www.fs.fed.us/biology/watershed/burnareas/background.html
 
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