The Automobile Thread

herzalot said:
A further thought on the luxury markup...

The $50k markup that someone with more money than common sense actually pays helped the dealership justify making me a deal that left them almost no profit. They overpaid for my wounded Atlas, and discounted the used Q8 to low trade-in value. They wouldn't be able to do that if they didn't make a killing on other sales.
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Who is to say that the buyer actually paid that ridiculous mark up? Most likely, they negotiated a price closer to what it should have been. To me all that silly mark-up is, is something to make jokes about. Unless you're a millionaire business owner who plans to use this vehicle for towing a big rig trailer and therefore, having a nice business write-off, I cant see anyone actually agreeing to pay anywhere near that.
 
SnakeCharmer said:
Who is to say that the buyer actually paid that ridiculous mark up? Most likely, they negotiated a price closer to what it should have been. To me all that silly mark-up is, is something to make jokes about. Unless you're a millionaire business owner who plans to use this vehicle for towing a big rig trailer and therefore, having a nice business write-off, I cant see anyone actually agreeing to pay anywhere near that.
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Hard to say. The Audi RS cars have been exceptionally hard to get over the last year, and placing an order for an RS6 right now means receiving it in early/mid 2024, if you are even able to get an allocation. The few that we had over the last year actually sold in the $25K - $30K over range. A nicely spec'd RSQ8 sold for $60K over a couple months ago, though that was a bit of an outlier.
 
When I went to buy a BRZ last year, I arrived to find a $7000 mark up (on a 30k car). I stood up and walked out. The fact that they didn't even try to stop me, nor ever called or messaged me later told me that they knew someone else would buy it.

I bought my Jeep for below invoice without even haggling. I have 9000 miles in less than a year, and I bicycle commute almost every day!
 
doublewide said:
@Derkderkall By chance have you looked at this?? Looks pretty good!

https://www.kia.com/us/en/seltos

View attachment 88244
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I’ve been eying that one as well. Might try to find one today to sit in.

I think the companies did a software update that added engine immobilization to the newer fleet.

it’s been fun seeing the sales guys do their thing at the dealers, me knowing full well that I’m using the buying service through our credit Union.

At this point I’m thinking the Subie might be best investment for peace of mind. I want this vehicle to be the one that lasts for the next 10 years.
 
Derkderkall said:
it’s been fun seeing the sales guys do their thing at the dealers, me knowing full well that I’m using the buying service through our credit Union.
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It's easy to Sh!t on car salesmen/women, but at the end of the day they're still human beings trying to make a living in a very competitive environment. Most dealerships work on an "ups" system, which means each sales person has X amount of minutes to be up, meaning he or she gets the next customer that comes in, and then they go to the bottom of the list. So by going into a dealership and working with a salesperson that you have no intention of buying a car from doesn't just take whatever those minutes of time are from that person. You might be his/her only opportunity to make a sale for a couple/few hours, or potentially even for the day depending on what kind of foot traffic that store has.
 
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buggravy said:
Hard to say. The Audi RS cars have been exceptionally hard to get over the last year, and placing an order for an RS6 right now means receiving it in early/mid 2024, if you are even able to get an allocation. The few that we had over the last year actually sold in the $25K - $30K over range. A nicely spec'd RSQ8 sold for $60K over a couple months ago, though that was a bit of an outlier.
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Wow, some people have money to burn. I just can't understand why anyone would pay thousands of dollars over what a vehicle is actually worth?
 
buggravy said:
It's easy to Sh!t on car salesmen/women, but at the end of the day they're still human beings trying to make a living in a very competitive environment. Most dealerships work on an "ups" system, which means each sales person has X amount of minutes to be up, meaning he or she gets the next customer that comes in, and then they go to the bottom of the list. So by going into a dealership and working with a salesperson that you have no intention of buying a car from doesn't just take whatever those minutes of time are from that person. You might be his/her only opportunity to make a sale for a couple/few hours, or potentially even for the day depending on what kind of foot traffic that store has.
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I can see that point of view. Problem is, car salesmen in general have such a bad reputation overall with their scripted game that it is hard to feel bad for them. I am also sure that "wasted time" is built into their expectations.

I went down a YouTube rabbit hole a couple of years ago watching a dude who exposed all their tricks, and it was funny because 90% of every car salesman I have ever dealt with tried almost all of them. I have a friend who sold cars for Acura for about a year, and he quit specifically because he felt bad about all the BS he had to pull on customers.

The only time I might intentionally waste their time is if I want to test drive a car, in which case I need to act interested. Otherwise, I tell them I am just browsing (which means "don't waste your valuable time"), but they rarely listen.

I will say if I know more about the car I am interested in than the salesman .... well, I won't deal with that person. They should at least be experts on the car they are trying to sell. :laugh::Roflmao
 
buggravy said:
It's easy to Sh!t on car salesmen/women, but at the end of the day they're still human beings trying to make a living in a very competitive environment. Most dealerships work on an "ups" system, which means each sales person has X amount of minutes to be up, meaning he or she gets the next customer that comes in, and then they go to the bottom of the list. So by going into a dealership and working with a salesperson that you have no intention of buying a car from doesn't just take whatever those minutes of time are from that person. You might be his/her only opportunity to make a sale for a couple/few hours, or potentially even for the day depending on what kind of foot traffic that store has.
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I think you are different. You are at an upscale dealer brand. If I walk into a BMW, Mercedes, Audi, LandRover dealer I’d expect to be treated differently than walking into a Ford, Kia, Chevy, Honda, Nissan dealer.


It’s widely known that getting you into the dealer is #1. Once there they can drag out the process and wear yiu down as the consumer.

Yiu say it wastes the salesman’s time….what about my time when I inquire about a vehicle that is on your lot, make an appointment for 1 hr later, just to get tot he dealer to be misled that there is a problem with that vehicle and it’s not available, they can’t find it, don’t have it. “How about this other model we have.”

I inquired with a dealer abiut a specific vehicle listed on their website. I told them these are my “have to haves”, leather, diesel, 12” info screen. “Yup we have it”. Get to the dealer, can’t find it. “I can make you deal on this other one….Cloth seats, Hemi, 8” Info screen.” Thanks for wasting my time. I walk.

Its easy to say salesmen are just humans trying to make a living. But that living just happens to be trying to separate from you as much of yiur money as they can. Many are predatory. For buyers that are uneducated and gullible, they can get burried in a new car purchase. This why most dealers sell vehicles based on monthly payments….they can manipulate the price to their advantage and hide it in financing.

There is a Ram dealer in Louisiana that sells in volume. They sell everything at around 10-12% below Sticker plus incentives…no mark ups, no add ons. They also don’t negotiate….they don’t have to.

like I said, upscale brands are different.
 
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herzalot said:
A further thought on the luxury markup...

The $50k markup that someone with more money than common sense actually pays helped the dealership justify making me a deal that left them almost no profit. They overpaid for my wounded Atlas, and discounted the used Q8 to low trade-in value. They wouldn't be able to do that if they didn't make a killing on other sales.
Click to expand...

Let us not bring market forces and reality into the discussion, please.:facepalm:
 
buggravy said:
It's easy to Sh!t on car salesmen/women, but at the end of the day they're still human beings trying to make a living in a very competitive environment. Most dealerships work on an "ups" system, which means each sales person has X amount of minutes to be up, meaning he or she gets the next customer that comes in, and then they go to the bottom of the list. So by going into a dealership and working with a salesperson that you have no intention of buying a car from doesn't just take whatever those minutes of time are from that person. You might be his/her only opportunity to make a sale for a couple/few hours, or potentially even for the day depending on what kind of foot traffic that store has.
Click to expand...

I actually make their lives easier :thumbsup: When my daughter needed a car, I looked at reasonable options online, went to the dealer, said "let's test drive that one," stayed at the dealership while she drove it, she came back and said she really liked it, and 1.5 hours later she drove it home.

I didn't haggle - much. Used car, obviously a 3 year-old lease return, certified used car that therefore has a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty, and it was reasonably priced to begin with. Got them to drop the price $400. Signed and left.

Salespeople are out to sell cars. I get that. I don't argue with them. I simply state my requirements, and they can either meet them or not. I don't waste their time or mine.

Win-win.
 
Obsidian said:
I have a friend who sold cars for Acura for about a year,
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I worked in phone sales for a running shoe store for short period of time about a decade ago. We had a lot of metrics we had to meet, and it was stressful. But somehow I also met my numbers because I was enthusiastic about running. I wasn't a stellar performer, but slightly above average. They had a "sales coach" that would work with you to try and help you sell more, and it made me feel dirty. She would sit there and talk the customer into just spending more money; "Oh, this shirt just looks so cute, how about we get you a couple?" and crap. Whenever I tried to sell someone something, it was because I was a runner myself and I was trying to be helpful, not trying to make money.

What was most shocking was how few people working there were athletic, at all. Very few people working there were actual runners, they were sales people.
 
buggravy said:
It's easy to Sh!t on car salesmen/women, but at the end of the day they're still human beings trying to make a living in a very competitive environment. Most dealerships work on an "ups" system, which means each sales person has X amount of minutes to be up, meaning he or she gets the next customer that comes in, and then they go to the bottom of the list. So by going into a dealership and working with a salesperson that you have no intention of buying a car from doesn't just take whatever those minutes of time are from that person. You might be his/her only opportunity to make a sale for a couple/few hours, or potentially even for the day depending on what kind of foot traffic that store has.
Click to expand...

The only car salesman I've ever Sh!t on was the redneck in Florida... He refused to talk to my wife, and only spoke to me. When he said, "All the little women like the red ones... That's what you should get her", I thought she was going to explode! :laugh:

And right next door was the Scottys hardware which refused to let her buy something on credit until her husband came in with her... Hmmm, maybe that wasn't so bad. :p

Anyone who has met us both knows that she's the brains of the outfit...
 
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Runs with Scissors said:
I'd buy it. I'm on my second consecutive CX-5. Gas mileage is pretty awesome. Last road trip got 32.5 mpg overall from SoCal to SLC & back, even with the hitch rack & two bikes hanging off the back, and A/C running almost all the way.
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Test drove both this morning, the 5 and the 50! Looks like much lower maintenance costs compared to VW, and simple straightforward repairs that wont require selling a kidney...
 
Derkderkall said:
All right, I've landed on 3 possible vehicles. I liked the forester (but don't love it aesthetically)... but it fits and drives well. However my goal will be to keep price with freight below 30k.
My 3 options that I want to test drive are.....

(2023 models, all FWD)
1) VW Tiguan S
2) Chevy Equinox LT
3) Nissan Rogue S
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Have you looked at the '23 Ford Escape? I think it's the same class. I like Fords, so just wanted to throw it out there to help confuse everything.
 
Derkderkall said:
Test drove both this morning, the 5 and the 50! Looks like much lower maintenance costs compared to VW, and simple straightforward repairs that wont require selling a kidney...
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My friend has a 2014 Ford explorer limited, 95k miles, he's selling. In really great shape, has an extended factory warranty for another year or more. Can't beat that. Think its $14k, and should still be available.
IMG_20230505_141042.jpg


If I needed a car, would definitely consider this.
 
mtnbikej said:
I think you are different. You are at an upscale dealer brand. If I walk into a BMW, Mercedes, Audi, LandRover dealer I’d expect to be treated differently than walking into a Ford, Kia, Chevy, Honda, Nissan dealer.


It’s widely known that getting you into the dealer is #1. Once there they can drag out the process and wear yiu down as the consumer.

Yiu say it wastes the salesman’s time….what about my time when I inquire about a vehicle that is on your lot, make an appointment for 1 hr later, just to get tot he dealer to be misled that there is a problem with that vehicle and it’s not available, they can’t find it, don’t have it. “How about this other model we have.”

I inquired with a dealer abiut a specific vehicle listed on their website. I told them these are my “have to haves”, leather, diesel, 12” info screen. “Yup we have it”. Get to the dealer, can’t find it. “I can make you deal on this other one….Cloth seats, Hemi, 8” Info screen.” Thanks for wasting my time. I walk.

Its easy to say salesmen are just humans trying to make a living. But that living just happens to be trying to separate from you as much of yiur money as they can. Many are predatory. For buyers that are uneducated and gullible, they can get burried in a new car purchase. This why most dealers sell vehicles based on monthly payments….they can manipulate the price to their advantage and hide it in financing.

There is a Ram dealer in Louisiana that sells in volume. They sell everything at around 10-12% below Sticker plus incentives…no mark ups, no add ons. They also don’t negotiate….they don’t have to.

like I said, upscale brands are different.
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True, I suppose high line sales is a different world, though the vast majority of my other car purchases were relatively pleasant as well. There was a little bit of f@ckery when I bought my truck, but it was pretty easily rectified. I do remember your story with the mark up on your ordered truck not being disclosed until you went to pick up the truck. That's unexcusable.
 
DangerDirtyD said:
I wouldn’t mind it if vehicles with illegal window tint had the glass smashed so I can communicate with the drivers while riding my E-bike to the grocery store to buy sustenance with less risk of getting mangled.
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Nope, no window smashing. I don't like them either. The answer is ride around them. Behind them. Or just wait for them to proceed.

Waiting won't kill you. They might.

Yeah, you have the legal right to be in the street. You also might not survive it. I'm way more pragmatic about this than you are.
 
Runs with Scissors said:
Nope, no window smashing. I don't like them either. The answer is ride around them. Behind them. Or just wait for them to proceed.

Waiting won't kill you. They might.

Yeah, you have the legal right to be in the street. You also might not survive it. I'm way more pragmatic about this than you are.
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When I'm crossing an intersection and a vehicle pulls up in haste to the right turn lane in front and perpendicular to me, I prefer not to stop in the middle of the intersection wondering if the driver is texting or looking. It's illegal because it's unsafe for cyclists, motorists, and law enforcement. I say smash dem windows! I won't actually smash the windows, but I also wont respect those drivers as decent people.
 
DangerDirtyD said:
When I'm crossing an intersection and a vehicle pulls up in haste to the right turn lane in front and perpendicular to me, I prefer not to stop in the middle of the intersection wondering if the driver is texting or looking. It's illegal because it's unsafe for cyclists, motorists, and law enforcement. I say smash dem windows! I won't actually smash the windows, but I also wont respect those drivers as decent people.
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Great. As my dad used to say, you can be dead right, or you can be dead wrong, either way you're dead just as long.

I'll exercise common sense and just go around them. Or wait.
 
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