Coronavirus. Not to be confused with Norcovirus.

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Mikie said:
Oh you’re catching on. Riding your bike confirms my theory. Bike on! And good on you for being one not to take the bait! Cuz I always go to the Wall Street Journal for my pandemic advise. :rolleyes::p
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Ok... I had my new dirt. Time to flame, baby! Put your suit on!

The last article you contributed to this thread was from a site that creates satire. Literally fake news for humor. Sadly, many will believe that a skydiver really fell from the sky and was counted as a covid death. I've seen it on Facebook in several forms- shared by thousands. :confused: I think I'll stick to the WSJ as one of my go to sources. If I need humor, I'll go to The Onion. At least I know one of the authors over there... :p

I think I finally put my finger on what bugs me so much about the "compare it to the flu" argument. No work goes into it. No thought. You look up a number and then you're done. Share it on the net and say, "Look, it's the same! You're all sheep!" There are a lot more numbers (and dollars) between the two diseases to consider. Probably why all those scientists and doctors are so concerned...

A comparison in total death numbers allows you to look at the problem as having only a start and and end point- an alpha and omega. Cut and dried... Simple! The mu in the middle is completely ignored. The mu being the differences in cost of effective treatment, and the strain on our ICU units. The flu does not require the same level of care. The flu is also an order of magnitude cheaper to treat than this disease. Dollars are something that the "open now, damnit!" crowd should be able to relate to...

Flame over. Anyone bring marshmallows?
 
Faust29 said:
Ok... I had my new dirt. Time to flame, baby! Put your suit on!

The last article you contributed to this thread was from a site that creates satire. Literally fake news for humor. Sadly, many will believe that a skydiver really fell from the sky and was counted as a covid death. I've seen it on Facebook in several forms- shared by thousands. :confused: I think I'll stick to the WSJ as one of my go to sources. If I need humor, I'll go to The Onion. At least I know one of the authors over there... :p

I think I finally put my finger on what bugs me so much about the "compare it to the flu" argument. No work goes into it. No thought. You look up a number and then you're done. Share it on the net and say, "Look, it's the same! You're all sheep!" There are a lot more numbers (and dollars) between the two diseases to consider. Probably why all those scientists and doctors are so concerned...

A comparison in total death numbers allows you to look at the problem as having only a start and and end point- an alpha and omega. Cut and dried... Simple! The mu in the middle is completely ignored. The mu being the differences in cost of effective treatment, and the strain on our ICU units. The flu does not require the same level of care. The flu is also an order of magnitude cheaper to treat than this disease. Dollars are something that the "open now, damnit!" crowd should be able to relate to...

Flame over. Anyone bring marshmallows?
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I over roasted my marshmallows. The flame was too hot!
 
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I can count on one hand how many times I’ve left the house in my car to go into an establishment since March 13th. Not sure how I’ve managed to stay sane but one thing I have noticed about myself is that I spend less time online and my stress levels are quite low. Maybe it’s all the time I get to spend with my three best friends, my wife and two kids.

Although the raccoon that tried to rip it’s way into our attic got me a little heated. As is the prep work I’ll be doing to have the house repainted. The coon certainly helped move exterior painting up on my list of expensive things to do. Luckily it decided to have babies next door after it’s failed attempt to rip through our fascia and a few roof shingles. :mad: Clearly she did not get the social distancing memo.
 
herzalot said:
So...what gets re-opened, and what remains restricted? What do the restrictions look like, if any? Or is it just up to our individual choice as to whether we attend these events? What if your work requires you to travel and attend a convention? Still your choice, I guess.

Will individual choice be sufficient to protect all? Start with schools please. Because if schools are still closed, parents have to stay at home.
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Schools: the kids aren’t a danger to themselves, just to their grandparents. We need a focused study immediately on whether they are actually not infected or are asymptomatic carriers. But assuming the kids aren’t carrying, the kids and teachers under 50 should report to class, subject to daily temperature checks and frequent testing. Teachers over 60 should be offered long term sick leave or remote work. Teachers 50-60 should be assessed for other risk factors.

More broadly, the federal government should provide 2 weeks paid sick for a positive covid test. I’d suggest having companies receive payroll tax relief equal to the individual’s salary. The idea is to not reward people for “toughing it out,” nor is it to give everyone a blanket 2 weeks paid vacay. The public has an interest in something that hurts the employer’s bottom line, so the public should help pick up the tab.
 
herzalot said:
You are describing the current situation. Take a stab at the questions I asked, unless your answer is to simply throw everything open as it was in early March and say "never mind - just kidding - my bad."

So...what gets re-opened, and what remains restricted? What do the restrictions look like, if any? Or is it just up to our individual choice as to whether we attend these events? What if your work requires you to travel and attend a convention? Still your choice, I guess.

Will individual choice be sufficient to protect all? Start with schools please. Because if schools are still closed, parents have to stay at home.
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IMO people are adults and have the choice, at this point, let it roll. How is your work forcing you to go to a convention any different than being told not only you can't work, but you're being let go. You don't even have the choice now. My opinion only, but certain industries/professions should take extra precautions, but that's up to them to decide. I will be the first to admit I can't give an answer for each industry.

Why can you go to Home Depot and wait in a line for 30 minutes to get in, but you can't go to the beach or park your car in a lot to ride your bike. The reality is everyone is going to have different comfort levels. 'Normal' people think I'm crazy for jumping my bike or riding mountain bikes, I think people that base jump or wingsuit crazy. It's all a matter of perspective.

To play devil's advocate, how long you want to lock people in their houses? Two years? There's no reasonable outcome on the table at this point. There's no information about how long this lasts. You either get it and are fine/survive, or you don't. How much longer do people go without jobs/income/economy/etc? There's already people that have had their jobs decimated and will likely never return in the near future. Oh, your job was sound productions for concerts? Sucks for you. Wedding planner? Better apply at Vons stocking shelves. There's no reasonable answer about opening anything. No plan, nothing. What's the answer? Put 50% of the population on unemployment for 1-2 years? Cause that's going to go well. You might lose your house and have to file for bankruptcy and end up in debt up to your eyeballs, but at least you didn't get a virus that statistically you won't die from.
 
kazlx said:
There’s also those few people that are deathly allergic to peanuts, or bee stings or any other number of things. I get that it’s a bit of false equivalency being a virus, transmission without knowing, etc, but outlier cases don’t represent the majority.

We are getting to the point where people should know and understand the risks and be able to make their own decisions. If you still want to hide in your house, order stuff online and live in fear everyday, that’s your choice, just like it is everyday.
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I just passed on first hand info from someone that has the responsibility of counting and reporting all the deaths that occur within that hospitals eco system.
I did not post or make judgments on what action anyone should take. And in reality neither did my sister.
Bottom line is a couple weeks ago her ICU was 100% full of patients dying from this, not some other cause. And now her ICU is about half full of those dying from this. So an improvement.

I have not altered my behavior to any extreme. Make your choice.

But when your local ICU is 100% full of folks dying as a result of peanut allergies without ever consuming a peanut, then you can make that comparison.

Cheers, see yall
 
Danimal said:
I just passed on first hand info from someone that has the responsibility of counting and reporting all the deaths that occur within that hospitals eco system.
I did not post or make judgments on what action anyone should take. And in reality neither did my sister.
Bottom line is a couple weeks ago her ICU was 100% full of patients dying from this, not some other cause. And now her ICU is about half full of those dying from this. So an improvement.

I have not altered my behavior to any extreme. Make your choice.

But when your local ICU is 100% full of folks dying as a result of peanut allergies without ever consuming a peanut, then you can make that comparison.
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The reality is, there comparatively aren't that many ICU beds. It may sound callous and harsh as hell, but it's the truth. 20 or 40 ICU beds, even if full, isn't even a sliver of a percent of the general population. How about all the other hospital areas that are on standby/furloughing people? There's plenty of hospitals operating at 20% capacity. I have friends that are nurses that are now worried about getting sent home or laid off because they don't have work for them. When you work in an ICU and all you see is ICU patients, you may feel busy and overwhelmed, but the reality is it's not a representative sample.
 
kazlx said:
IMO people are adults and have the choice, at this point, let it roll. How is your work forcing you to go to a convention any different than being told not only you can't work, but you're being let go. You don't even have the choice now. My opinion only, but certain industries/professions should take extra precautions, but that's up to them to decide. I will be the first to admit I can't give an answer for each industry.

Why can you go to Home Depot and wait in a line for 30 minutes to get in, but you can't go to the beach or park your car in a lot to ride your bike. The reality is everyone is going to have different comfort levels. 'Normal' people think I'm crazy for jumping my bike or riding mountain bikes, I think people that base jump or wingsuit crazy. It's all a matter of perspective.

To play devil's advocate, how long you want to lock people in their houses? Two years? There's no reasonable outcome on the table at this point. There's no information about how long this lasts. You either get it and are fine/survive, or you don't. How much longer do people go without jobs/income/economy/etc? There's already people that have had their jobs decimated and will likely never return in the near future. Oh, your job was sound productions for concerts? Sucks for you. Wedding planner? Better apply at Vons stocking shelves. There's no reasonable answer about opening anything. No plan, nothing. What's the answer? Put 50% of the population on unemployment for 1-2 years? Cause that's going to go well. You might lose your house and have to file for bankruptcy and end up in debt up to your eyeballs, but at least you didn't get a virus that statistically you won't die from.
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This is a very twisted understanding of liberty. You have many freedoms, but the freedom to infect me is not one of them. Roll your eyes all you want, but that’s the deal. By the way, eye rolling is adolescent behavior, as is insistence on personal autonomy to do dumb things. So the “we're all adults” line is not persuasive.

the government has a very high bar to clear before they start doing what they’ve been doing. But with stacks of bodies and no cure, the states have quite a lot of power to control contagion.
 
That's where is comes down to agree to disagree. If I choose to ride my bike, you still have the liberty to stay at home. What's your solution? 50 deaths so far in OC from Covid. 100 people die every month from fatal car accidents in OC. There's not going to be a cure anytime soon, so I guess we lock people down for the next year. If we are going full throttle why do people need drive through? Close all retail, close all restaurants, those are all non-essential liberties that you don't seem to mind staying open. Or are we still picking and choosing what's allowed? It's ok if something gets infected at a Taco Bell drive through, but not at a parking lot in a public park? That's where this twisted logic is coming in. You want to keep everyone safe? Shut literally everything down, but that's not feasible now either, is it?

This idiocy that people somehow thing getting things delivered from Amazon or Doordash or anything else is any safer is ridiculous. If one driver is positive and not showing symptoms and delivering to 20 houses a day, where does go? It's very easy to play a what-if game.

Please explain how it's the liberty to infect you....you're mistaking your own fear for liberty of others.
 
An overall response from me here. I’m assuming all those that say “shelter in place” still have jobs and an income. If you want to stay sheltered in place go for it. I don’t know how many of you have had a business and faced bankruptcy and the destruction that comes from it. I can see people on this thread are getting ramped up again, so I’m no longer going to contribute to this.

If someone is stupid enough to think a guy dying from falling out of the sky skydiving died of CV-19 is possible then I’m really not worried about them, as natural selection will take care of that lineage. Besides, everything in the BabylonBee is true, right? At least when it comes to many of the articles it is for me. :p

As far as someone close to me dying from COVID-19 I have had PLENTY OF PEOPLE DIE AROUND ME FROM ALL SORTS OF Sh!t! COVID-19 is just another flavor. Cancer, heart disease, obesity, heart attacks, auto accidents so what makes CV-19 so unique or special, if I die from CV-19, so be it. I know my maker.

Some of the Sh!t you guys come up with astounds me. I’m not trying to make enemies here, but I got to tell you I’m in the same camp as @kazlx and apparently @Robbie .

After 51 pages of this satire I would almost welcome back eBike discussions, as I’m still searching for the common sense in all of this. It’s all over the map.

@tick, I love you buddy so I’m not even going to retort your dumazz comment about apparently only my president. Like I said, I love yah....

Sooo.... I’m done with this thread. Bike riding is on my agenda... peace out! If they still remotely say that. :thumbsup:
 
Cornholio said:
I can count on one hand how many times I’ve left the house in my car to go into an establishment since March 13th. Not sure how I’ve managed to stay sane but one thing I have noticed about myself is that I spend less time online and my stress levels are quite low. Maybe it’s all the time I get to spend with my three best friends, my wife and two kids.

Although the raccoon that tried to rip it’s way into our attic got me a little heated. As is the prep work I’ll be doing to have the house repainted. The coon certainly helped move exterior painting up on my list of expensive things to do. Luckily it decided to have babies next door after it’s failed attempt to rip through our fascia and a few roof shingles. :mad: Clearly she did not get the social distancing memo.
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Spring is in the air! (seems like this thread could use a left turn)
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I’m surprised the chinese lego video hasn’t come up.
 
In reply to deliveries, if you have food items delivered (as well as mail or anything else), you can wipe them down with disinfectant or if porous "incubate" and they should be safe. We seem to forget that most of the critical measures were implemented because the ICU units of hospitals were being overwhelmed. Now, they're able to assimilate the new cases and all of a sudden it wasn't wise to close anything. It's obvious there is a deep divide between the philosophies here, and it isn't getting closed.
 
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Exactly. There's a million flavors of communicable diseases, causes of death, risks that we face every day just by living. This is just one more thing that either passes or we find a way to deal long term, either way, life goes on. The world coming to an indefinite grinding hault is not the answer. No matter what your outlook is, you can't save everyone.
 
tick said:
This is a very twisted understanding of liberty. You have many freedoms, but the freedom to infect me is not one of them. Roll your eyes all you want, but that’s the deal. By the way, eye rolling is adolescent behavior, as is insistence on personal autonomy to do dumb things. So the “we're all adults” line is not persuasive.

But with stacks of bodies and no cure, the states have quite a lot of power to control contagion.
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With liberty comes grave responsibility. Why do you assume that I would not take the very basic steps of wearing a "face covering" (so as not to infect others, not to protect me) and keeping my distance, if I so callously choose to go outdoors or get my hair cut or ....

The idea that the "state" has the ability to lock us down is abhorrent. Most of us aren't so stupid that we can't process the information being presented.
 
Runs with Scissors said:
With liberty comes grave responsibility. Why do you assume that I would not take the very basic steps of wearing a "face covering" (so as not to infect others, not to protect me) and keeping my distance, if I so callously choose to go outdoors or get my hair cut or ....

The idea that the "state" has the ability to lock us down is abhorrent. Most of us aren't so stupid that we can't process the information being presented.
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Not sure why so many people think we can't take precautions and still move forward. A 50% societal standstill isn't going to solve anything. I've definitely noticed more people out, more people driving, more people at the stores, etc. People are going to get exponentially more pissed at the government telling them what they can and can't do. But hey, the government is so great at handling everything they touch...
 
tick said:
This is a very twisted understanding of liberty. You have many freedoms, but the freedom to infect me is not one of them. Roll your eyes all you want, but that’s the deal. By the way, eye rolling is adolescent behavior, as is insistence on personal autonomy to do dumb things. So the “we're all adults” line is not persuasive.

the government has a very high bar to clear before they start doing what they’ve been doing. But with stacks of bodies and no cure, the states have quite a lot of power to control contagion.
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" The state has quite a lot of power"

So long as the people of the state relinquish it!

Then what?
 
kazlx said:
That's where is comes down to agree to disagree. If I choose to ride my bike, you still have the liberty to stay at home. What's your solution? 50 deaths so far in OC from Covid. 100 people die every month from fatal car accidents in OC. There's not going to be a cure anytime soon, so I guess we lock people down for the next year. If we are going full throttle why do people need drive through? Close all retail, close all restaurants, those are all non-essential liberties that you don't seem to mind staying open. Or are we still picking and choosing what's allowed? It's ok if something gets infected at a Taco Bell drive through, but not at a parking lot in a public park? That's where this twisted logic is coming in. You want to keep everyone safe? Shut literally everything down, but that's not feasible now either, is it?

This idiocy that people somehow thing getting things delivered from Amazon or Doordash or anything else is any safer is ridiculous. If one driver is positive and not showing symptoms and delivering to 20 houses a day, where does go? It's very easy to play a what-if game.

Please explain how it's the liberty to infect you....you're mistaking your own fear for liberty of others.
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One common behavior of the "open now, damnit" proponents in this thread is to label everyone that disagrees as fearful- "Go hide in your house for two years". One user has done it at least four times in this thread when confronted with facts that don't fit his bias. It's turning into standard procedure here, but it's a piss poor debate tactic.

I could just as easily say you are petrified of the future and the uncertainty, and it comes through in your arguments.
 
kazlx said:
IMO people are adults and have the choice, at this point, let it roll. How is your work forcing you to go to a convention any different than being told not only you can't work, but you're being let go. You don't even have the choice now. My opinion only, but certain industries/professions should take extra precautions, but that's up to them to decide. I will be the first to admit I can't give an answer for each industry.

Why can you go to Home Depot and wait in a line for 30 minutes to get in, but you can't go to the beach or park your car in a lot to ride your bike. The reality is everyone is going to have different comfort levels. 'Normal' people think I'm crazy for jumping my bike or riding mountain bikes, I think people that base jump or wingsuit crazy. It's all a matter of perspective.

To play devil's advocate, how long you want to lock people in their houses? Two years? There's no reasonable outcome on the table at this point. There's no information about how long this lasts. You either get it and are fine/survive, or you don't. How much longer do people go without jobs/income/economy/etc? There's already people that have had their jobs decimated and will likely never return in the near future. Oh, your job was sound productions for concerts? Sucks for you. Wedding planner? Better apply at Vons stocking shelves. There's no reasonable answer about opening anything. No plan, nothing. What's the answer? Put 50% of the population on unemployment for 1-2 years? Cause that's going to go well. You might lose your house and have to file for bankruptcy and end up in debt up to your eyeballs, but at least you didn't get a virus that statistically you won't die from.
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Still avoiding the questions and answering with pointless rhetorical questions. At least @tick took a stab at it.

I will infer from this that you are in favor of just saying "never mind" and throwing everything back open and letting the chips fall where they may. If that's your position, just say so.

Also, many of you are assuming because I am pushing hard on your solutions that I am in favor of locking everything down and staying at home until there's a cure or vaccine. I am not. I just want to push you all to stop talking bullshit about how this is nothing out of the ordinary and give us your plans for getting back up to speed. Pretend you are the Governor that you hate or the President you love.
 
herzalot said:
Still avoiding the questions and answering with pointless rhetorical questions. At least @tick took a stab at it.

I will infer from this that you are in favor of just saying "never mind" and throwing everything back open and letting the chips fall where they may. If that's your position, just say so.

Also, many of you are assuming because I am pushing hard on your solutions that I am in favor of locking everything down and staying at home until there's a cure or vaccine. I am not. I just want to push you all to stop talking bullshit about how this is nothing out of the ordinary and give us your plans for getting back up to speed. Pretend you are the Governor that you hate or the President you love.
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I posted my plan earlier in the thread. It’s likely buried now. Can’t recall if you ever posted yours?
 
Faust29 said:
One common behavior of the "open now, damnit" proponents in this thread is to label everyone that disagrees as fearful- "Go hide in your house for two years". One user has done it at least four times in this thread when confronted with facts that don't fit his bias. It's turning into standard procedure here, but it's a piss poor debate tactic.

I could just as easily say you are petrified of the future and the uncertainty, and it comes through in your arguments.
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Perhaps a nuanced response would be more palatable.

I have the liberty to leave my house. To go to the beach. To go on a trail. To get my hair cut. Et cetera. That's my liberty.

With that comes my responsibility. Which is to do my part to ensure, to the best of my ability (note that nothing is 100%) that I do not make myself a danger to others.

I can do this by not lackadaisically going out and about. I can ensure that when I exit my house I have the appropriate face covering, that I don't handle every freakin' potato in the bin, that I don't leave the house if I am ailing....

Personal responsibility. A trait much frowned upon these days, but I'm not sure why. As I said earlier, most of us aren't so stupid that we can't figure out these basic behaviors to help protect each other.

Schools may be more problematic. My wife is a first grade teacher, and also asthmatic, so I really do get the issue. Distance learning is not what people are used to, but it works. Will it inconvenience people? Sure. But probably not as inconvenient as being dead.

Most workplaces have adapted to the new normal. We won't be dining out in a sit-down restaurant any time soon, which kinda sucks because we have a $120 gift card to the Summit House in Fullerton. Ordering out from that place just ain't the same.

Would it be perfect? Of course not. Neither is what we're doing now.

It's time to legalize adulthood. The corollary of that is to hold adults responsible for their actions.
 
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