Coronavirus. Not to be confused with Norcovirus.

Status
Not open for further replies.
If you guys want me to create a forum so we can talk politics, I can do that. It seems that there are those that can post their political Sh!t talk on here and it’s fine until a guy like me comes along and responds. Then there are those that say, “Whoa, no politics!” I know there are a bunch of liberal mountain bikers on here I’m not one of them, and I love you just the same until you start breaking the rules like bashing the President. Still love you but you are pissing me off. I’m telling you it’s not okay to have your double standard here. Either stop the Sh!t talk or we build a Forum where we can officially ruin our relationships.

This goes for conservatives posting as well. Can we have that one place where politics don’t come into play? If you don’t like it, there are other forums out there. I will closely monitor myself as well, We’re stressed enough so knock it off. Please?
 
fos'l said:
This may be too simplistic, but seems as though the average number of deaths (normalized for slight change in population size) of 50+, 60+, 70+ or whatever year old individuals in Italy, Britain, US, CA or NY during March could be compared with this year for a reflection of the corona influence (obviously subtract murders, car accident deaths etc).
Click to expand...
To what ends? Seems we’ve spent 30 pages discussing morbidity rate. If we stipulate that the morbidity rate is statistically low, can we move on to discuss why it’s overwhelming our health care system (in some places) and what to do about that? Preparing other cities for a potentially overwhelming scenario? Preventing the overwhelming scenarios? Just because morbidity might be statistically low doesn’t mean it is not overwhelming our systems like nothing before.

And then - what to do next? How will we re-start? Then after that - what will we do differently moving forward for the next strain that we can’t control?

For those who are obsessed with proving that the morbidity rate is statistically low, there must be a giant implication behind it. Such as “therefore, we shouldn’t do anything differently than we normally do.”
 
Wasn't trying to solve all the problems, rather attempting to provide an analysis of what the virus is doing to kind of answer those that are saying its affect is way overblown. If you haven't read about it, Italy is reclassifying some of their early "results" to whatever end, and some of our representatives are attempting the same.
Also, when I said that the Governor's plan seemed prudent, it was in no way a political comment, just what I thought of these specific actions.
 
For those who don't have N95 masks (most of us I guess) and feel the ("doctor's type") aren't very protective, I think my DIY model is superior. I cut the head portion off a balaclava inverted it and added paper toweling for additional filtration covering my nose and mouth (in my case 8 layers or two towels from a COSTCO roll folded a couple of times). The good thing is it's very unrestricted unless you "purse" your lips against the towels as when passing or otherwise encountering someone when it provides maximum filtration. Acid test starting now.
 
Last edited:
Mikie said:
If you guys want me to create a forum so we can talk politics, I can do that. It seems that there are those that can post their political Sh!t talk on here and it’s fine until a guy like me comes along and responds. Then there are those that say, “Whoa, no politics!” I know there are a bunch of liberal mountain bikers on here I’m not one of them, and I love you just the same until you start breaking the rules like bashing the President. Still love you but you are pissing me off. I’m telling you it’s not okay to have your double standard here. Either stop the Sh!t talk or we build a Forum where we can officially ruin our relationships.

This goes for conservatives posting as well. Can we have that one place where politics don’t come into play? If you don’t like it, there are other forums out there. I will closely monitor myself as well, We’re stressed enough so knock it off. Please?
Click to expand...

Nope.....don't want politics to come into play. That seems to drive a divider between people.

I have my own opinions and feelings, but have tried my best to keep them out of this thread.
 
herzalot said:
To what ends? Seems we’ve spent 30 pages discussing morbidity rate. If we stipulate that the morbidity rate is statistically low, can we move on to discuss why it’s overwhelming our health care system (in some places) and what to do about that? Preparing other cities for a potentially overwhelming scenario? Preventing the overwhelming scenarios? Just because morbidity might be statistically low doesn’t mean it is not overwhelming our systems like nothing before.

And then - what to do next? How will we re-start? Then after that - what will we do differently moving forward for the next strain that we can’t control?

For those who are obsessed with proving that the morbidity rate is statistically low, there must be a giant implication behind it. Such as “therefore, we shouldn’t do anything differently than we normally do.”
Click to expand...


It's all a conspiracy............
















:rolleyes:
 
herzalot said:
To what ends? Seems we’ve spent 30 pages discussing morbidity rate. If we stipulate that the morbidity rate is statistically low, can we move on to discuss why it’s overwhelming our health care system (in some places) and what to do about that? Preparing other cities for a potentially overwhelming scenario? Preventing the overwhelming scenarios? Just because morbidity might be statistically low doesn’t mean it is not overwhelming our systems like nothing before.

And then - what to do next? How will we re-start? Then after that - what will we do differently moving forward for the next strain that we can’t control?

For those who are obsessed with proving that the morbidity rate is statistically low, there must be a giant implication behind it. Such as “therefore, we shouldn’t do anything differently than we normally do.”
Click to expand...

this is key. Regardless of how one feels about healthcare (I’m biased on this point, of course), if the industry goes down, I suspect we will likely have overall much more damage to the overall economy than the distancing measures. Not at all trying to downplay the massive economic devastation already underway by these current measures, directly and indirectly experienced by many on this forum.

I think Fauci and most epidemiologists are right: massive ramping of antigen testing and mass rollout of antibody testing is the only way to gradually roll out parts of the economy again while reducing the odds of one or more additional waves. Antigens to better assess the infected and do more of a S Korea style targeted quarantining and contact tracing, and antibodies to determine those likely immune who can “safely” help restart the economy.

IMHO, massive kudos to Trump for listening to Fauci so far.

This will have the added benefit of taking a lot of uncertainty out of estimating the morbidity and mortality rates on this virus and allowing better planning for the next time.

I think also (Not being political, Mikie, just trying to be pragmatic) that we need to reassemble/beef up a federal pandemic response team, regardless of who wins in November. This pattern of outbreaks is going to continue, and likely increase, especially if populations continue to increase, people have to search for more food sources, interactions with animals increase, and the general fact of zoonotic sources for many human diseases.

also, good advice on minimizing political discourse, but a general statement: opposition to Trump does not necessarily equate to being a “liberal,” just as opposition to Obama did not necessarily equate to being a “conservative.”
 
Mikie said:
If you guys want me to create a forum so we can talk politics, I can do that. It seems that there are those that can post their political Sh!t talk on here and it’s fine until a guy like me comes along and responds. Then there are those that say, “Whoa, no politics!” I know there are a bunch of liberal mountain bikers on here I’m not one of them, and I love you just the same until you start breaking the rules like bashing the President. Still love you but you are pissing me off. I’m telling you it’s not okay to have your double standard here. Either stop the Sh!t talk or we build a Forum where we can officially ruin our relationships.

This goes for conservatives posting as well. Can we have that one place where politics don’t come into play? If you don’t like it, there are other forums out there. I will closely monitor myself as well, We’re stressed enough so knock it off. Please?
Click to expand...
There are pros and cons to opening a politics only thread/forum.

Pros: It would be confined and separated from the rest of the goings on here.

Cons: It would be confined and separated from the rest of the goings on here.

I can live without it but asking everyone to never take things into a political direction is something that is hard to do because politics play a role in a lot of things, whether we like it or not. What annoys me is when different sides get going at each other. But then again, how can they not?

It sounds like I stand neutral on the matter but I can say for certain if it possible exclude politics here, I'm all for it.
 
SnakeCharmer said:
There are pros and cons to opening a politics only thread/forum.

Pros: It would be confined and separated from the rest of the goings on here.

Cons: It would be confined and separated from the rest of the goings on here.

I can live without it but asking everyone to never take things into a political direction is something that is hard to do because politics play a role in a lot of things, whether we like it or not. What annoys me is when different sides get going at each other. But then again, how can they not?

It sounds like I stand neutral on the matter but I can say for certain if it possible exclude politics here, I'm all for it.
Click to expand...


Nicely said...I might add that there has been increased politicization of issues such that the politics dodge can now be invoked with a huge variety of topics, at least several of which did not have such a partisan divide a few decades ago.
 
herzalot said:
To what ends? Seems we’ve spent 30 pages discussing morbidity rate. If we stipulate that the morbidity rate is statistically low, can we move on to discuss why it’s overwhelming our health care system (in some places) and what to do about that? Preparing other cities for a potentially overwhelming scenario? Preventing the overwhelming scenarios? Just because morbidity might be statistically low doesn’t mean it is not overwhelming our systems like nothing before.

And then - what to do next? How will we re-start? Then after that - what will we do differently moving forward for the next strain that we can’t control?

For those who are obsessed with proving that the morbidity rate is statistically low, there must be a giant implication behind it. Such as “therefore, we shouldn’t do anything differently than we normally do.”
Click to expand...

My main thought is that they could have been a little more pragmatic in the response. I get it that NYC has been hit, and hit extremely hard. So have some parts of Europe. Would San Diego, Boise, Miami, Dallas, or any other metropolitan area be hit as hard if it weren’t for the draconian measures that were taken? Maybe, but maybe not. We’ll never fully know. But we do know the impact that it’s had on the economy and the well being of millions of people. If there’s a hurricane heading towards Florida, does the rest of the Country prepare for the storm or do we localize the response to Miami?
 
Mikie said:
If you guys want me to create a forum so we can talk politics, I can do that. It seems that there are those that can post their political Sh!t talk on here and it’s fine until a guy like me comes along and responds. Then there are those that say, “Whoa, no politics!” I know there are a bunch of liberal mountain bikers on here I’m not one of them, and I love you just the same until you start breaking the rules like bashing the President. Still love you but you are pissing me off. I’m telling you it’s not okay to have your double standard here. Either stop the Sh!t talk or we build a Forum where we can officially ruin our relationships.

This goes for conservatives posting as well. Can we have that one place where politics don’t come into play? If you don’t like it, there are other forums out there. I will closely monitor myself as well, We’re stressed enough so knock it off. Please?
Click to expand...

Yes please no politics talk.... Especially the kind that states that one side is an imbecile and then states no more politics talk...
Or we can create a forum for politics and not participate.... Like when we see a big crash on freeway and not look...
 
When it comes to politics, most are never changing their mind - so I view it like the holidays with fam, best to keep it to yourself.

As far as homemade masks - blue shop towels are supposed to be the most effective to layer in your mask.
0.3 micron filtering with a double layer of them.
 
T
Oaken said:
When it comes to politics, most are never changing their mind - so I view it like the holidays with fam, best to keep it to yourself.

As far as homemade masks - blue shop towels are supposed to be the most effective to layer in your mask.
0.3 micron filtering with a double layer of them.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information on the blue towels. As far as the "mask"; stayed up and was pretty unobtrusive during a two hour hike. Efficacy unknown since we encountered only one other person, a jogger and maintained social distancing.
 
Oaken said:
When it comes to politics, most are never changing their mind - so I view it like the holidays with fam, best to keep it to yourself.

As far as homemade masks - blue shop towels are supposed to be the most effective to layer in your mask.
0.3 micron filtering with a double layer of them.
Click to expand...

I tried it and they are very hard to breathe through...I got a bunch though
 
SnakeCharmer said:
The problem with these fine mesh homemade face masks is that as @rossage has stated, they are hard to breathe through. The N-95 masks are brutal to breathe through. Our emergency service workers are heroes for working as hard as they do while breathing through these very restrictive protective measures.
Click to expand...
Yep. My job won’t issue the N95s unless you go through a fit test first.
 
pperrelle said:
My main thought is that they could have been a little more pragmatic in the response. I get it that NYC has been hit, and hit extremely hard. So have some parts of Europe. Would San Diego, Boise, Miami, Dallas, or any other metropolitan area be hit as hard if it weren’t for the draconian measures that were taken? Maybe, but maybe not. We’ll never fully know. But we do know the impact that it’s had on the economy and the well being of millions of people. If there’s a hurricane heading towards Florida, does the rest of the Country prepare for the storm or do we localize the response to Miami?
Click to expand...
Hurricanes aren't contagious.
 
In re-reading my posts, I believe my political references were fairly evenly distributed. The one time I directly mentioned our president, I was referring to words he himself said at a press conference I listened to that very day.

You can't keep politics out of a discussion of a pandemic by definition, but you can be civil and respectful. Maybe even open minded? The discussion is about rights and laws and policies and our place in the world and science etc etc. To pretend we can avoid politics is to say we can't talk about it at all.

And you can't keep e-bike discussion out of a mt bike forum.

But we are big boys and girls who should be able to be respectful of one another. I apologize for my occasional use of sarcasm to make a point.
 
herzalot said:
Hurricanes aren't contagious.
Click to expand...

You’re right. We should just shut down the world every time a new virus shows up.

The H1N1 was contagious person to person and had a 17% fatality rate. I don’t recall the world shutting down in 2009.

My point is that the fear mongering and over reaction doesn’t have to happen. Hopefully we’ll be able to use this experience to better handle the next one.
 
pperrelle said:
You’re right. We should just shut down the world every time a new virus shows up.

The H1N1 was contagious person to person and had a 17% fatality rate. I don’t recall the world shutting down in 2009.

My point is that the fear mongering and over reaction doesn’t have to happen. Hopefully we’ll be able to use this experience to better handle the next one.
Click to expand...
So - as I have asked over and over again from those who assert that this is no different than other flus - what should we have done and what should we do? In none of our other scares (h1n1, SARS, etc) did we have the conditions we are experiencing with this. Highly contagious + no treatment + no vaccine + very little appropriate equipment + scarce tests + massive quantity of asymptomatic carriers + overwhelmed medical system.

False equivocation is running rampant.
 
herzalot said:
So - as I have asked over and over again from those who assert that this is no different than other flus - what should we have done and what should we do? In none of our other scares (h1n1, SARS, etc) did we have the conditions we are experiencing with this.

False equivocation is running rampant.
Click to expand...

I never said it’s the same as the seasonal flu. H1N1 was also a Pandemic. I agree that Covid 19 is also a pandemic. My point is that there has to be a better way to address a pandemic other than shutting down the entire economy. Maybe there isn’t. I don’t know.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one, which is cool. In the end, we’re all just mountain bikers and not virologists.
 
It’s not just the mortality rate of covid that’s at issue. Compared to the flu, even if the death rate isn’t much higher, it looks like the rate of long-term or even permanent lung damage/fibrosis is higher (doesn’t really happen from the flu unless you get a secondary infection). Saw numerous accounts of people who were quite athletic now can barely go up a flight of stairs without getting winded after recovering from a severe case of covid. Nobody quite knows yet how permanent that is. (Yes I know this is anecdotal but scary). Frankly if I recover but could no longer seriously hike, run, ride, or climb, it might as well’ve just killed me.
Despitr my initial irritation with CA’s early stay at home order, Perhaps it was the right move comparing our current numbers with NY. No way to know for sure without a control group. I agree with Fauci that even though it looks like curves may be flattening, maybe right now is not the time to let up restrictions. If we do that too soon and infections spike back up the 2d Great Depression will be for naught, the economic damage is already done. But I don’t think we can go too much longer.
However, one thing is for sure. We can’t do these 2-month lockdowns every year, or there will be no civilization; unless we change to completely different economic, health, and environmental systems. High time for that, perhaps.
 
pperrelle said:
I never said it’s the same as the seasonal flu. H1N1 was also a Pandemic. I agree that Covid 19 is also a pandemic. My point is that there has to be a better way to address a pandemic other than shutting down the entire economy. Maybe there isn’t. I don’t know.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one, which is cool. In the end, we’re all just mountain bikers and not virologists.
Click to expand...
I don' t necessarily disagree, I just haven't heard the response I've been asking for from those who are insisting that we've over-reacted. If it's just business as usual, what should we have done differently? And what would we do now? Should we have kept schools open? Should we re-open them? Should we have kept public events happening and all of the economic impact that such events bring? Hotels, restaurants, etc? Should we re-open them now and finish the NBA, NHL seasons and get started with MLB? Coachella?

Why won't anyone who is pushing the "we are overreacting" point of view offer their better solution?

BTW, I do applaud the fact that Fauci hasn't been kicked to the curb for saying things his boss doesn't want to hear.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top