Snow Sports and/or Surfing

buggravy said:
Agreed on all fronts re: Summit. I also think Summit shines in crappy snow years when Mt. High is too low to get decent coverage, and Mammoth isn't worth the drive. Usually ends up being spring conditions in Jan/Feb at Summit in those years, and nobody is there.

I haven't been to Mt. High in at least a decade. It always struck me as full of kids that drove their lowered Civics with fart can mufflers and wore Axe body spray. I saw on-slope fist fights in each of my last 2 visits there. I think Bear is basically the same crowd, just 5 years grown up and of drinking age. I'm sure I'm unfairly generalizing, but I was inspired not to go back to either. Summit is on my pass, and I feel is the best blend of family vibe and decent terrain locally, so that's pretty much exclusively where I go when not venturing up the 395. I suppose the drive sucks, but I never got accustomed to the Mt High drive, so it just feels like what has to be done.
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Mt High is not quite as ghetto as you describe. People are pleasant to each other. Still have some gangsta rap and pot smoking in the parking lot, but like everywhere else, 4 runners, big expensive trucks, Teslas and Audis now outnumber the lowered Civics by about 50:1 I haven't seen any bad blood on the slopes or in the lift lines. I wouldn't go there if it were actually as you describe.

As far as base altitude, Mt. High West is 7000'. I believe Summit is the same.

My daughter had a horrible experience with the Snow Summit Ski School and they had her in basically a condo parking lot and she skied a total of about 75 yards in two hours. Mt. High's ski school was off to the side with its own rental, lunch and learning facility with two magic carpets and a chairlift.

It does look like Snow Summit offers a bit more variety without having to go to a different mountain, and the top to bottom beginner slope is definitely a bonus. But getting there and back is an ordeal when snow is good or weekends, so it's not worth it to me.
 
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buggravy said:
Agreed on all fronts re: Summit. I also think Summit shines in crappy snow years when Mt. High is too low to get decent coverage, and Mammoth isn't worth the drive. Usually ends up being spring conditions in Jan/Feb at Summit in those years, and nobody is there.

I haven't been to Mt. High in at least a decade. It always struck me as full of kids that drove their lowered Civics with fart can mufflers and wore Axe body spray. I saw on-slope fist fights in each of my last 2 visits there. I think Bear is basically the same crowd, just 5 years grown up and of drinking age. I'm sure I'm unfairly generalizing, but I was inspired not to go back to either. Summit is on my pass, and I feel is the best blend of family vibe and decent terrain locally, so that's pretty much exclusively where I go when not venturing up the 395. I suppose the drive sucks, but I never got accustomed to the Mt High drive, so it just feels like what has to be done.
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You are indeed generalizing. But your general impression is accurate.

but as for the Axe body spray, I’m now encountering all kinds of seriously over-scented inside people on the trail. Like the hills smell crappy and they just want to smell themselves...
 
herzalot said:
Mt High is not quite as ghetto as you describe. People are pleasant to each other. Still have some gangsta rap and pot smoking in the parking lot, but like everywhere else, 4 runners, big expensive trucks, Teslas and Audis now outnumber the lowered Civics by about 50:1 I haven't seen any bad blood on the slopes or in the lift lines. I wouldn't go there if it were actually as you describe.

As far as base altitude, Mt. High West is 7000'. I believe Summit is a little lower or the same.

My daughter had a horrible experience with the Snow Summit Ski School and they had her in basically a condo parking lot and she skied a total of about 100 yards in two hours. Mt. High's ski school was off to the side with its own rental, lunch and learning facility with two magic carpets and a chairlift.
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The parking lot at Waterman is the best local lot experience I’ve had. Old dudes pull up in their campers, place their chairs where they can see the action, pop a Coors, and never get around to skiing.
 
herzalot said:
Mt High is not quite as ghetto as you describe. People are pleasant to each other. Still have some gangsta rap and pot smoking in the parking lot, but like everywhere else, 4 runners, big expensive trucks, Teslas and Audis now outnumber the lowered Civics by about 50:1 I haven't seen any bad blood on the slopes or in the lift lines. I wouldn't go there if it were actually as you describe.

As far as base altitude, Mt. High West is 7000'. I believe Summit is a little lower or the same.

My daughter had a horrible experience with the Snow Summit Ski School and they had her in basically a condo parking lot and she skied a total of about 75 yards in two hours. Mt. High's ski school was off to the side with its own rental, lunch and learning facility with two magic carpets and a chairlift.
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I'm sure it has changed some since I was last there, and I've probably perpetuated an exaggerated stereotype in my mind as well.

Maybe it's the snow making capacity at Snow Summit, but they just always seem to have the most terrain open and deeper base in the lean years. My daughter also had a bad experience at the Snow Summit ski school. I think at its best it's just outdoor babysitting.
 
buggravy said:
I'm sure it has changed some since I was last there, and I've probably perpetuated an exaggerated stereotype in my mind as well.

Maybe it's the snow making capacity at Snow Summit, but they just always seem to have the most terrain open and deeper base in the lean years. My daughter also had a bad experience at the Snow Summit ski school. I think at its best it's just outdoor babysitting.
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My low expectations for ski school at Summit were met.

My wife complains about the snow constantly when we’re there. Sorry, not all of us grew up in Utah. Be happy it hasn’t all melted in between runs.

I think taking the kids to Snowmass last year might have ruined them too. My daughter’s almost-snobby opinion of Summit this year was pretty funny. I should have her go somewhere in West Virginia or Michigan to get some perspective.

“No complimentary hot cider at the top of the lift, I say...this establishment is unsatisfactory.”
 
herzalot said:
As promised:
Bluebird skies, a foot of fresh snow and a short line of cars waiting to turn in to the ski area.
View attachment 72558
Fresh tracks under blues skies for run #3 (single plank)
View attachment 72559

Avoiding lift lines by taking the old double chair. A single snowboarder left some tracks.
View attachment 72560

Some fluff under my aptly named Never Summer snowboard:

View attachment 72561

Yes, I know. I should find a ski or snowboard forum to join and stop boring you all with this stuff. But hey, I consider you all my friends. So please validate my existence.
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It seems that someone can’t decide what to strap their feet too. Maybe you should get a monoski. Do they still have those things?
;)
 
tick said:
My low expectations for ski school at Summit were met.

My wife complains about the snow constantly when we’re there. Sorry, not all of us grew up in Utah. Be happy it hasn’t all melted in between runs.

I think taking the kids to Snowmass last year might have ruined them too. My daughter’s almost-snobby opinion of Summit this year was pretty funny. I should have her go somewhere in West Virginia or Michigan to get some perspective.

“No complimentary hot cider at the top of the lift, I say...this establishment is unsatisfactory.”
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Ha, yeah, if my daughter only knew. Cataloochee Ski Area in the snow mecca of Western NC is where I cut my teeth. I worked the parking lot by day, and skied the ice under the lights at night. Actually, come to think of it, I bet my kid would like night riding at Snow Summit. Hmmm, note to self...
 
Snow Summit or bust. I expect the drive in the morning may be a bit of an adventure. R3 this evening, though surely it will be down to R1 or 2 by the morning. I assume the weekday will keep the snow gazers away as well.

B77320E3-F04A-4B72-A540-4F30A9BEDDA1.jpeg
 
Well, 20 months and counting. What a complete and utter sh!tshow today was. "Knowing", because it was stated on their website, that BBMR is limiting lift tickets due to Covid, and because it was a weekday, and because I wasn't trying to get first tracks with the kid in tow, and because road conditions were R3 when I went to bed last night, and because I still went so far as to make a parking reservation with confirmation number and barcode, I felt like arriving in Big Bear a little before 10 was completely appropriate. Accounting for some back ups at chain control we pulled out of Calabasas at a hair past 7. We turned on to Summit Blvd at 10:30, and were immediately waved down to the remote lot. I tried to have the whole reservation conversation, but got nowhere. Tried to park in the first remote lot, but it too was full, and there was a ridiculous line for the shuttle, which was absolutely body to body. Proceeded to the Moonridge lot, which was also near capacity, where the guy directing traffic said the wait just to get on a shuttle would be 1 to 2 hours. Went back to Summit and told them I was dropping off, so I could take a pass through that lot, and nothing doing. Probably a blessing in disguise, as I was already skeebed out by the omnipresent super-spreader vibe. I have to imagine that lift lines were a complete cluster as well. BBMR can go f@ck themselves with their limited ticket sales schtick, if their remote lots are at capacity. Decided to head towards home, with the thought that I might just pay for half day tickets at Snow Valley so that the day wasn't a total loss, but by the time we got there it was so socked in with fog that I blew past the entrance without even knowing it. So yeah, 6 hours in the car, and no snow sliding for me or the rugrat. This was also a bit of a sobering look at what snowboarding during Covid might look like. I know the snow brought people up in droves, but I was totally taken aback by the crowds. What a buzzkill.
 
buggravy said:
Well, 20 months and counting. What a complete and utter sh!tshow today was. "Knowing", because it was stated on their website, that BBMR is limiting lift tickets due to Covid, and because it was a weekday, and because I wasn't trying to get first tracks with the kid in tow, and because road conditions were R3 when I went to bed last night, and because I still went so far as to make a parking reservation with confirmation number and barcode, I felt like arriving in Big Bear a little before 10 was completely appropriate. Accounting for some back ups at chain control we pulled out of Calabasas at a hair past 7. We turned on to Summit Blvd at 10:30, and were immediately waved down to the remote lot. I tried to have the whole reservation conversation, but got nowhere. Tried to park in the first remote lot, but it too was full, and there was a ridiculous line for the shuttle, which was absolutely body to body. Proceeded to the Moonridge lot, which was also near capacity, where the guy directing traffic said the wait just to get on a shuttle would be 1 to 2 hours. Went back to Summit and told them I was dropping off, so I could take a pass through that lot, and nothing doing. Probably a blessing in disguise, as I was already skeebed out by the omnipresent super-spreader vibe. I have to imagine that lift lines were a complete cluster as well. BBMR can go f@ck themselves with their limited ticket sales schtick, if their remote lots are at capacity. Decided to head towards home, with the thought that I might just pay for half day tickets at Snow Valley so that the day wasn't a total loss, but by the time we got there it was so socked in with fog that I blew past the entrance without even knowing it. So yeah, 6 hours in the car, and no snow sliding for me or the rugrat. This was also a bit of a sobering look at what snowboarding during Covid might look like. I know the snow brought people up in droves, but I was totally taken aback by the crowds. What a buzzkill.
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Sorry Bug. Nice narrative anyway. I hope your daughter didn't mind too much all that time in the car without the snowplay fun. I suppose you owe her an ice cream cone, at least.
 
buggravy said:
Well, 20 months and counting. What a complete and utter sh!tshow today was. "Knowing", because it was stated on their website, that BBMR is limiting lift tickets due to Covid, and because it was a weekday, and because I wasn't trying to get first tracks with the kid in tow, and because road conditions were R3 when I went to bed last night, and because I still went so far as to make a parking reservation with confirmation number and barcode, I felt like arriving in Big Bear a little before 10 was completely appropriate. Accounting for some back ups at chain control we pulled out of Calabasas at a hair past 7. We turned on to Summit Blvd at 10:30, and were immediately waved down to the remote lot. I tried to have the whole reservation conversation, but got nowhere. Tried to park in the first remote lot, but it too was full, and there was a ridiculous line for the shuttle, which was absolutely body to body. Proceeded to the Moonridge lot, which was also near capacity, where the guy directing traffic said the wait just to get on a shuttle would be 1 to 2 hours. Went back to Summit and told them I was dropping off, so I could take a pass through that lot, and nothing doing. Probably a blessing in disguise, as I was already skeebed out by the omnipresent super-spreader vibe. I have to imagine that lift lines were a complete cluster as well. BBMR can go f@ck themselves with their limited ticket sales schtick, if their remote lots are at capacity. Decided to head towards home, with the thought that I might just pay for half day tickets at Snow Valley so that the day wasn't a total loss, but by the time we got there it was so socked in with fog that I blew past the entrance without even knowing it. So yeah, 6 hours in the car, and no snow sliding for me or the rugrat. This was also a bit of a sobering look at what snowboarding during Covid might look like. I know the snow brought people up in droves, but I was totally taken aback by the crowds. What a buzzkill.
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Gawd that sounds awful. Worse than my one trip to Mt High reported last month. It was totally a super spreader vibe. I think the limited ticket sales schtick is a complete fraud. I am going to Snow Valley this Monday with a nephew...never been there but have low expectations after reading this. At least its a little closer. Well the ski areas in Washington state were like this too after a big snow dump I suppose...but for a Tuesday you would think the crowds would be moderated. I wanted to do a night session at Mt High...it might be best way to beat the crowds...but the boy's dad thinks driving up there at night is more dangerous. Would rather be riding the bike at Floop!
 
DangerDirtyD said:
Sorry Bug. Nice narrative anyway. I hope your daughter didn't mind too much all that time in the car without the snowplay fun. I suppose you owe her an ice cream cone, at least.
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She was an unbelievably good sport. Not having to do math today was probably more important to her than snowboarding anyway. And no ice cream for this precocious tween. She got a decaf peppermint mocha frappucino.
Robbie said:
Gawd that sounds awful. Worse than my one trip to Mt High reported last month. It was totally a super spreader vibe. I think the limited ticket sales schtick is a complete fraud. I am going to Snow Valley this Monday with a nephew...never been there but have low expectations after reading this. At least its a little closer. Well the ski areas in Washington state were like this too after a big snow dump I suppose...but for a Tuesday you would think the crowds would be moderated. I wanted to do a night session at Mt High...it might be best way to beat the crowds...but the boy's dad thinks driving up there at night is more dangerous. Would rather be riding the bike at Floop!
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I have hope for Snow Valley. It seemed pretty quiet when we passed by first thing in the morning, though I heard they were down a lift due to mechanical issues, so the other line had gotten fairly long.
 
Even pre covid, I found it faster to walk back to the remote lot than wait for the shuttle. If I can’t be in the lot by 8:30, I’m not going, because the shuttle is just an awful wait.

what’s crazy is all the people who didn’t do what you did—you made the only rational decision, thousands of others right behind you chose to stick around...
 
I am really sorry to read this @buggravy and it makes me feel even more like I have been getting away with something for the past three years. Every time I go, the traffic is light, I get waved through if there is a chain law, I park in the upper lot a short walk from the lifts - maybe three-five rows back. I get in tons of runs before the crowd thickens, then I just go to the slow chairs and still get in my laps. Sometimes I grab a bite to eat around 11 with no line, and sometimes I don't . Changing equipment or clothes at the car is easy. Home by 2:30 or 3:00. EVERY time. For my third season now. And this is on weekends or holidays.

So you all can have your arduous trek up to Snow Summit and Big Bear for the shuttle-induced super-spreader events. I'll continue to enjoy my little routine that has resulted in 15 laps in 3-4 hours on descent runs with good pitch and pretty good snow. You're welcome to join me some morning to see for yourself. The ONLY way to do it however is to be there before 8:00 am, which for me means leaving at 6:15. NBD. Oh, and the upper lot is $20. But I bought a season pass to that too, and when my wife goes, she has a placard, so there's that.

BTW - it should come as no surprise given our other coincidences that your daughter's reaction would match my daughter's. Ruby would definitely be happy with no math, a day in the car with dad and a decaf peppermint mocha frappucino. If your daughter isn't a great snowboarder, maybe we should put the two ten year olds together and see what happens!
 
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tick said:
Even pre covid, I found it faster to walk back to the remote lot than wait for the shuttle. If I can’t be in the lot by 8:30, I’m not going, because the shuttle is just an awful wait.

what’s crazy is all the people who didn’t do what you did—you made the only rational decision, thousands of others right behind you chose to stick around...
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Even my 11 year old said "why would they wait in a 45 minute line for a shuttle to avoid a 15 minute walk?". The Moonridge lot is not walking distance to Snow Summit as far as I know, but I can't say that I've ever had to resort to that lot even in the busiest times that I've been there. It amazes me what people will tolerate.
herzalot said:
I am really sorry to read this @buggravy and it makes me feel even more like I have been getting away with something for the past three years. Every time I go, the traffic is light, I get waved through if there is a chain law, I park in the upper lot a short walk from the lifts - maybe three-five rows back. I get in tons of runs before the crowd thickens, then I just go to the slow chairs and still get in my laps. Sometimes I grab a bite to eat around 11 with no line, and sometimes I don't . Changing equipment or clothes at the car is easy. Home by 2:30 or 3:00. EVERY time. For my third season now. And this is on weekends or holidays.

So you all can have your arduous trek up to Snow Summit and Big Bear for the shuttle-induced super-spreader events. I'll continue to enjoy my little routine that has resulted in 15 laps in 3-4 hours on descent runs with good pitch and pretty good snow. You're welcome to join me some morning to see for yourself. The ONLY way to do it however is to be there before 8:00 am, which for me means leaving at 6:15. NBD. Oh, and the upper lot is $20. But I bought a season pass to that too, and when my wife goes, she has a placard, so there's that.
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Ha, I suppose I'm kind of eating crow after my post the other day. Admittedly, the Mammothification of Snow Summit has not been particularly positive. I've generally had the same luck you have had at Summit, though with a few glaring exceptions. Today being one, and probably the most surprising.

Coincidentally, I was listening to a automotive podcast this evening, and they got on to Big Bear as a tangent. The guest referred to Big Bear as the epicenter of COVID, seemingly implying there's common knowledge that COVID is rampant in Big Bear.
 
herzalot said:
BTW - it should come as no surprise given our other coincidences that your daughter's reaction would match my daughter's. Ruby would definitely be happy with no math, a day in the car with dad and a decaf peppermint mocha frappucino. If your daughter isn't a great snowboarder, maybe we should put the two ten year olds together and see what happens!
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I like the sound of that. And my daughter is neither a natural, nor particularly concerned with improving. Snowboarding for her is just something to do, that is, at times, fun.
 
Big Bear has become a complete nightmare during ski season and during the Summer when the herds drive up to escape the heat. I don't even like going into town when I am up there. And now, t's slammed year round since covid arrived.
 
Herz, you need to talk to the powers that be at Mtn High about getting on a mega pass that the rest of us can use...I’m sure Monarch is great, but...

Can we get the residents of Springfield to fund a monorail to Big Bear?

A gondola from Redlands would pay for itself—think of all the money developers could make selling Mentone as “walk to the lifts.”

If waterman opens, the $60 lift ticket is worth it just for the ride on a diesel powered lift and Costco hot dogs at the snack bar. It’s such a homemade labor of love type deal.

http://www.mtwaterman.org/
 
@tick - I probably already mentioned somewhere in this thread that Monarch was my home ski area in high school. Great snow most years, except the drought my junior year. No snowmaking. 1000' of vert. Two main lifts and a beginner lift. Then they added another lift before my senior year.

And no thank you. I don't need Mt. High to be part of a megapass. you can get a season pass for under $300. Pays for itself in 4 visits Suck it up, buttercup!
 
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buggravy said:
Coincidentally, I was listening to a automotive podcast this evening, and they got on to Big Bear as a tangent. The guest referred to Big Bear as the epicenter of COVID, seemingly implying there's common knowledge that COVID is rampant in Big Bear.
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you made me look. It looks like Big Bear locals aren’t doing so badly, only 6% have tested positive, vs 17% of Fontucky. Though it’s possible that many of the lifties woudnt be sober enough to get tested when sick...but SB county is the epicenter of SoCal covid, and it’s reasonable to assume that Big Bear is the one place in SBC that many people associate with crowds.
 
Skipped yesterday because the honey-do list was critical and I knew it would be a giant clusterfuck to try to get to the ski area.

But today - plan well executed. Mt. High opened the East ski area yesterday around 10:30 am for the first time this season, with virtually all slopes open, including the steepest piece of real estate they own - Olympic Bowl. Cool, I'm in. East serves 1600 vertical feet in one high speed lift. That is comparable with the big boys.

I left my house at 6:15 - it should have been 6:00. A 3 minute stop for gas and I was rolling. But couldn't make it without a roadside bladder drain. Ahhhhh, OK. Drat. At about the 5280' level - at what I call the mile-hi chain station - the traffic backed to a crawl. Shoot. 15-20 minutes earlier and I would have missed this. No huge impact. I still parked (at East) at 8:00 am relatively close - short walk to lifts. That is key to a good session or a nightmare. If you have to shuttle from a remote lot at ANY ski area, your experience is going to suck. Especially during a pandemic when you can't go into a lodge, and you don't want to be jammed on a shuttle bus.

8 runs on skis including 6 trips down Olympic Bowl. Leg burning runs. The groomed runs were epic. Soft, smooth and long. No lift lines to speak of. A few minutes, tops.

Dropped one layer after three runs (reference benefit of parking close), then switched to sweatshirt when I switched to snowboard. I only had time - and legs - for three runs on the snowboard, but I figured out some toe-side magic.

The drive down the 2 was ridiculous. Cars parked for miles and miles on both sides of the road, and traffic backed up both directions with snow-play people. It took 45 minutes to get from the East lot to the 15. Usually takes 20. Not bad after that. Left at 12:45. Home at 2:52.

11 runs x 1600 vertical per = 17,600 vertical feet of descent. Not bad. My legs are toast! :thumbsup:

The only thing missing was someone to share the experience with. :(

The usual photos:

My incredibly handsome self on the lift. Check out that lift line around 10:30 am!
Mt Hi Lift Selfie 1-31-21.JPG


Snow under the same lift as above:
Snow under lift at East.JPG


Is it Utah? Canada? Colorado? No. It's the backside of Baldy in LA County:

Looks like UT!.JPG
 
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herzalot said:
Skipped yesterday because the honey-do list was critical and I knew it would be a giant clusterfuck to try to get to the ski area.

But today - plan well executed. Mt. High opened the East ski area yesterday around 10:30 am for the first time this season, with virtually all slopes open, including the steepest piece of real estate they own - Olympic Bowl. Cool, I'm in. East serves 1600 vertical feet in one high speed lift. That is comparable with the big boys.

I left my house at 6:15 - it should have been 6:00. A 3 minute stop for gas and I was rolling. But couldn't make it without a roadside bladder drain. Ahhhhh, OK. Drat. At about the 5280' level - at what I call the mile-hi chain station - the traffic backed to a crawl. Shoot. 15-20 minutes earlier and I would have missed this. No huge impact. I still parked (at East) at 8:00 am relatively close - short walk to lifts. That is key to a good session or a nightmare. If you have to shuttle from a remote lot at ANY ski area, your experience is going to suck. Especially during a pandemic when you can't go into a lodge, and you don't want to be jammed on a shuttle bus.

8 runs on skis including 6 trips down Olympic Bowl. Leg burning runs. The groomed runs were epic. Soft, smooth and long. No lift lines to speak of. A few minutes, tops.

Dropped one layer after three runs (reference benefit of parking close), then switched to sweatshirt when I switched to snowboard. I only had time - and legs - for three runs on the snowboard, but I figured out some toe-side magic.

The drive down the 2 was ridiculous. Cars parked for miles and miles on both sides of the road, and traffic backed up both directions with snow-play people. It took 45 minutes to get from the East lot to the 15. Usually takes 20. Not bad after that. Left at 12:45. Home at 2:52.

11 runs x 1600 vertical per = 17,600 vertical feet of descent. Not bad. My legs are toast! :thumbsup:

The only thing missing was someone to share the experience with. :(

The usual photos:

My incredibly handsome self on the lift. Check out that lift line around 10:00 am!
View attachment 72756

Snow under the same lift as above:
View attachment 72757

Is it Utah? Canada? Colorado? No. It's the backside of Baldy in LA County:

View attachment 72758
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Very nice! I think you were right in your previous post, where you said you're getting away with something. Apparently June turned away lots of people this weekend: pass holders who have been told they are guaranteed a spot, as well as people who actually bought lift tickets for this weekend, only to be turned away when they got there. Mammoth was supposedly a zoo, with hour long lift lines. I'm sure they'll both be on a reservation only system imminently.
 
:whistling: :sneaky: :sneaky:

Stay away. Mt. High is a ghetto dump with no snow, horrible slopes and fist fights in the parking lot. You wouldn't like it there. Best go to one of the more civilized ski areas! :thumbsup:

That and the stupid $300 season pass. I haven't had any fun and have only gotten double my money's worth so far (and it's not even February yet). Snow Summit for the win!
 
Went to Snow Valley today, was pretty good. Took heed of Herz’ comments and got an early start, arrived 8 AM. Weather not ideal, rained on and off, flat light conditions much of the day, which at times was a struggle with covid face warmer steaming up the lenses constantly. But everything was open, Slide Mountain was fun . crowded for a Monday, line for the hi speed chair kinda long but not densely packed 6 abreast like Mt High. The nephew has parallel turns down pretty good this year and is able to do the single diamonds now, good to see him breakthrough to where he can ski almost the entire mountain. the pic is top of Slide mt, that was best because no lift lines there. It was better than riding Floop! (but not by much :))

75C10141-799C-46A9-9FC3-965460397885.jpeg
 
Big Bear is selling their 21/22 midweek pass at $439. Which makes me think I won’t getting Ikon for $649 next year...

I’m taking end of the Disneyland pass as foreshadowing big changes next year to the ski pass biz.
 
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