One More eBike Debate

Mikie said:
Hey,
I have not helped here as usual. But lets not turn a GREAT story into a product debate.
Like I said, I can be the worse at derailments.

I'm going to delete my stoopid posts above and lets focus on this being the awesomeness it really it is....
:) Sound cool awesome people?
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Thanks. I'd honestly prefer to just delete the entire thread and if that were in the thread tools, I'd have done it already. I knew this would turn into a debate about the e-bike side of the sport and I was ready for it. My biggest concern is becoming part of the problem of mountain biking being a crime and something like this being used as ammo.

Regardless, I felt that the nature of the understanding both sides of this issue could potentially outweigh the public admission of illegal access. I realize now, that was wrong and I shouldn't have gone for this ride with my pops and if I did, I certainly should have not shared it publicly.

I find it interesting how a sport that seems like it should be inclusive pushes me into seclusion the more I attempt to share it with people. Sometimes I question if we even deserve to have any access on multi-use trails with how the average (weakest link in the chain) rider treats other users groups... Sh!t... even with how we treat each other. It seems like I go through this with every sport I do, skiing, motocross, skateboarding, scuba diving etc... they always become more hassle to share/discuss then it's worth. Back to my solitude and riding sans sharing and sans ride reports.
 
Ebruner said:
Thanks. I'd honestly prefer to just delete the entire thread and if that were in the thread tools, I'd have done it already. I knew this would turn into a debate about the e-bike side of the sport and I was ready for it. My biggest concern is becoming part of the problem of mountain biking being a crime and something like this being used as ammo.

Regardless, I felt that the nature of the understanding both sides of this issue could potentially outweigh the public admission of illegal access. I realize now, that was wrong and I shouldn't have gone for this ride with my pops and if I did, I certainly should have not shared it publicly.

I find it interesting how a sport that seems like it should be inclusive pushes me into seclusion the more I attempt to share it with people. Sometimes I question if we even deserve to have any access on multi-use trails with how the average (weakest link in the chain) rider treats other users groups... Sh!t... even with how we treat each other. It seems like I go through this with every sport I do, skiing, motocross, skateboarding, scuba diving etc... they always become more hassle to share/discuss then it's worth. Back to my solitude and riding sans sharing and sans ride reports.
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You are fine my friend. The story was great. Lucky to still have your Dad. Have an awesome weekend.
 
I rode today at Sycamore Canyon in Riverside with Craig the Electric Boogaloo. The man has Parkinson’s Disease and rides an Ebike with a Bosch motor in order to participate. No other riders or hikers encountered along the way; no harm; no foul. Good times had by all. Small scale infractions are incremental impacts. However, when thousands get on board, the ship will sink. Oh well. At least there’s TV.
 
Ebruner said:
Thanks. I'd honestly prefer to just delete the entire thread and if that were in the thread tools, I'd have done it already. I knew this would turn into a debate about the e-bike side of the sport and I was ready for it. My biggest concern is becoming part of the problem of mountain biking being a crime and something like this being used as ammo.

Regardless, I felt that the nature of the understanding both sides of this issue could potentially outweigh the public admission of illegal access. I realize now, that was wrong and I shouldn't have gone for this ride with my pops and if I did, I certainly should have not shared it publicly.

I find it interesting how a sport that seems like it should be inclusive pushes me into seclusion the more I attempt to share it with people. Sometimes I question if we even deserve to have any access on multi-use trails with how the average (weakest link in the chain) rider treats other users groups... Sh!t... even with how we treat each other. It seems like I go through this with every sport I do, skiing, motocross, skateboarding, scuba diving etc... they always become more hassle to share/discuss then it's worth. Back to my solitude and riding sans sharing and sans ride reports.
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You are good.....i have less concern with them out on the mtn fire roads. While Blackstar is technically closed to motorized vehicles. While the rest of the mtn is in lockdown it was the only local viable option.

Now change the location to Oaks or Whiting, and that is a different story.

Don’t get me wrong, I still razz the Ebikes on B* when I see them. Hell, that is where Suz demo’d The one she rode.
 
kioti said:
One thing in the OP that got my attention was how easy it seemed for your dad to ride away from you. Now trade places with him and think about how E-bikes are like two-wheeled chairlifts and how fast they cover ground under strong riders. They have the potential of multiplying each rider's impact on a given route by allowing them to do laps. They shrink trail systems. And they have riders coming at hikers from both directions. If I was a hiker on a multi-use trail, I think I'd have a hard enough time watching out for descending bikes, let alone fast bikes approaching from below.
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This comparison may not apply but I have thought about this often since I have delved into the ebike arena and experienced first hand some of the negative responses and comments along the way. In my opinion, the handful of hardcore riders who ride and climb using single speed bikes are the true rockstars of this sport. I have wondered what their feeling might be about the evolution of bikes regarding suspension, GEARING, etc. What do they really think about when someone blows by them on a climb using the latest technology in order to go faster, longer, etc. Don't advances in technology "shrink trail systems" on some level? I don't necessarily want to throw fuel on the fire but I know that there are single speeders on this site and this is a question that has been burning inside me.
 
mtnbikej said:
Except I’m seeing more of these on the trails....

View attachment 43657

Than the Ped-Ego you posted.

This is where the line starts to get blurred.
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I see no blur. One of my regular riding friends rides a bike that looks just like it. You can't tell it is what it is until you see him right on my tail on a hard climb. He is still pedaling, still working, still riding it like a bicycle. And, while is regular push bike is better for tech riding, he still doesn't like to get airborne on either, so he mainly rides the electric.
 
LLPoolJ said:
Pretty bike. I am in. Do you know if they have any other colors?
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krylon-spray-can-3d-model-max-obj-3ds-fbx-c4d.png
 
Cyclotourist said:
Glad this was all posted, every bit of it. The original post, the thoughts from others.
We need to be able to listen to and articulate opposing views like big boys and girls.
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Yah, me too, still not going to change anything, the outcome will be the same, some winners, and some losers. There will be a positive outcome for me , I pedal (for now). I win.
 
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LLPoolJ said:
Bark bark bark, chase tail chase tail, bark bark bark. This is the outcome more often than not.
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And that’s ok, people need to vent, so post away, and above all get out and ride your bike, it might prolong your life, that is if it is worth it to you to prolong it?

Edit: Ride what and who you want. As far as bikes are concerned, I have said this before. When the bike companys take this trend to the next level due to popularity, like no more human powered bike, or just putting the bulk of there technological research into electric mopeds, then I’ll just have to buy up enough bicycles to last me to the end, or maybe even give in cause old is old?
 
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bpacifica said:
This comparison may not apply but I have thought about this often since I have delved into the ebike arena and experienced first hand some of the negative responses and comments along the way. In my opinion, the handful of hardcore riders who ride and climb using single speed bikes are the true rockstars of this sport. I have wondered what their feeling might be about the evolution of bikes regarding suspension, GEARING, etc. What do they really think about when someone blows by them on a climb using the latest technology in order to go faster, longer, etc. Don't advances in technology "shrink trail systems" on some level? I don't necessarily want to throw fuel on the fire but I know that there are single speeders on this site and this is a question that has been burning inside me.
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As one of those SS guys you speak of. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Your body is more capable than your brain. You head tells you to quit way before your body will. Learning to block out or ignore what you head is telling you, will show you what you can really do.

With that said, you still have to put effort in.

As for what we think about the evolution of bikes.....up to earlier this year, I was still on older’ish technology. However, my new Hightower has introduced me to dropper posts, 12 spd drivetrains and new/modern geometry.

Bike these days are much more capable than they used to be. Lighter, faster, more efficient, with more travel.

I still prefer the SS....but the HT is a fun bike to ride.
 
bpacifica said:
This comparison may not apply but I have thought about this often since I have delved into the ebike arena and experienced first hand some of the negative responses and comments along the way. In my opinion, the handful of hardcore riders who ride and climb using single speed bikes are the true rockstars of this sport. I have wondered what their feeling might be about the evolution of bikes regarding suspension, GEARING, etc. What do they really think about when someone blows by them on a climb using the latest technology in order to go faster, longer, etc. Don't advances in technology "shrink trail systems" on some level? I don't necessarily want to throw fuel on the fire but I know that there are single speeders on this site and this is a question that has been burning inside me.
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That's a great question. Check some of his ^^ @mtnbikej's ride reports. :)

The single speeders I know come from a geared and fully-suspended past. They make the choice for a variety of reasons, but can still be very fast--often climbing faster and going long distances. But then they are often very accomplished riders in the first place.

My "shrinking trail systems" comment doesn't apply just to E-bikes. Trail runners get through a space faster than hikers. Mountain bikers generally cover more ground than those on foot. So a relatively small park can seem large on foot and smaller on a bike. A park that takes an hour to circumnavigate on a standard bike could feel less expansive on a motorized one. It's mostly a matter of perception relating to the adequacy of a certain area.

From a trail maintenance standpoint, more mileage in the same amount of time represents more impact like brake bumps and tread displacement by the same number of users. With the exception of one stellar individual, I haven't seen the local E-bike community get involved in trail maintenance. Most of what we do is by-hand, on a volunteer basis. If and where E-biking is allowed (I'm talking about single track/not dirt roads), I hope the riders are giving back and helping keep the trails in good shape.
 
mtnbikej said:
Your body is more capable than your brain. You head tells you to quit way before your body will.
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In general, and based on past experience, I'd tend to agree with that statement. BUT....(there's always a but, and it usually ain't pretty)...it does happen that sometimes your brain says keep going and your body won't or shouldn't. Believe it. I live it.
 
Mikie said:
Love. Grace.
I personally fail in it every day.
It's something this world is losing. It's slipping away.
I do my damnest to moderate this site with Love and Grace.
I think because of my conviction to love and grace, we have a pretty good site.

Lately, I have been struggling, as it seems, for whatever reason, there has been a lot of tension through a series of subjects. There have been people leaving, behind the scenes. There have been people leaving in a blaze of gunfire.
I can see why moderators burn out.

When I first started this site @mtnbikej was one of the early adopters. Like a jackwad I was bagging on the owner of that other now defunked site. Talked about him letting people down, and how he was being so, irresponsible.

Jay responded, and it rings in my head every day, "Let's see how well you are doing after 10 years".

Apparently that really sunk in as I remember it like it was yesterday.

A guy shares a great story that moved me, and moved a bunch of us. Every important element was in it. Apprehension before, during, and after, even debated posting it. But his excitement was so that he wanted to share it with his family. Us... We raise him up as a hero son. Then it slowly migrates to divisive Sh!t talk. Where is the love for our fellow imtbro? Why did he have to begin to have to defend himself? We ALL know the act in black and white was outside the grey. Where is the grace? Especially when he is sharing a part of his life... with his Father. With us.

I go out last Monday and I hop 7 illegal gates and trespass on other peoples property and I am raised up as the comeback kid. I broke the law. Thanks for the love! I mean that, but...

Another person here admitted they ride illegal trails and no one says a word.

Humans are THE ONLY creature that rationalize. If we all lived in an objective world, you would not have to lock your doors at night, but because we live in a "Subjective" world there are those that have no problem breaking into your house, or killing us.

Love and Grace. For each other. Let's use it.
If I'm failing at my own rules, call me out on it. I will apologize, I'm the last to be perfect. The very last.

Carry on.
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Good reminder Mikie! I would not want your job here..I don’t like the tension that comes with some posts.
 
mountaingirl sara said:
Good reminder Mikie! I would not want your job here..I don’t like the tension that comes with some posts.
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Consider: If there is tension in you, it is of your own making. This is the interwebs. No one is in your face and forcing you to conform to their view at the point of a gun, no matter how "heated" it may get. Never take anything said (typed) here personally and you are well on your way to a yoga-free - wait, make that tension-free :p - life. People come from vastly different backgrounds, upbringings, religions, non-religions, natures, nurtures, mental states, et cetera, ad nauseam. Be sure of your own beliefs, confirm them with facts, and nothing else can really bother you.

Unless, of course, you let it. You, not others, are in control of your emotions and states of being.
 
bpacifica said:
This comparison may not apply but I have thought about this often since I have delved into the ebike arena and experienced first hand some of the negative responses and comments along the way. In my opinion, the handful of hardcore riders who ride and climb using single speed bikes are the true rockstars of this sport. I have wondered what their feeling might be about the evolution of bikes regarding suspension, GEARING, etc. What do they really think about when someone blows by them on a climb using the latest technology in order to go faster, longer, etc. Don't advances in technology "shrink trail systems" on some level? I don't necessarily want to throw fuel on the fire but I know that there are single speeders on this site and this is a question that has been burning inside me.
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There are no single speeders here. :stop: :cautious:

But if there were... They might think that what you call an advance in gearing is really a performance hobbling crutch. I... uh not me really, but if I knew any of those single speeders, they might say that they love to hear the sound of shifting on a climb. It means the rabbit is running out of steam and slowing down. Much easier to catch after the "click, click, click."
 
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