Flu shot????

SnakeCharmer said:
I am speaking here only by my own personal experiences, that's a fact. However, my experiences may or may not be your experiences or the experiences of others on a given subject. That too, is a fact. Therefore, not all facts are exactly alike, even when we are talking about the same subject. So, I ask you, are facts really in fact, facts?
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In fact, that's my point exactly!
 
shawndoh said:
For real- Facts are hard to come by these days.
Rapidly changing information vs a lot of bullshit, it's hard to keep track.
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Tangent incoming, but this is a subject where this comes home to roost. Everyone should watch The Social Dilema. Spoiler: we all get a different "news" feed of "facts" based on what algorithms determine we want to read, meaning what will keep us reading, and returning to read.
 
Obsidian said:
I got my shot Wednesday. I never miss a year.

The shots were mandatory when I was in the military, and I see no reason to mess with a good thing.
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Got my flu shot last Friday.

When I was in the Army, I got shots for things I didn't even know existed. Then I was moved to Germany and they did it all over again, but this time the shots had German names :) German for the flu is "die Grippe" which sounds a lot scarier :)
 
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SnakeCharmer said:
As far as the flu, you must not have had any of the really bad ones. I sure have have. The last time I had it, it was once of the really bad ones. Sickest I've ever been, period.
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When I had the flu at 18, I was bedridden for 6 days. I remember it being pretty violent. I haven't had the flu since.
 
herzalot said:
Be careful of facts people. Facts are often dressed up garbage that zealots pass around the internet to promote their beliefs. Real facts are hard to find and even harder to vet. So do what you think is best for you and your loved ones, but don't send sick kids to school.
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epistemic humility is always a good idea. It’s important to understand what we know, what we think we know, what we know we don’t know, and to admit that we don’t know what we don’t know sometimes.

Even so, true things remain true whether we believe them or not.

It’s always acceptable to challenge the scientific consensus. But the way to challenge it is to repeat the experiment. Simply claiming “I have my own interpretation” isn’t sufficient. Your own interpretation has to be testable.

I’m open to non-testable, non-repeatable truths. That is called faith, and we humans come pre-wired for it. But we risk doing damage to ourselves when we let internet shysters abuse our faith.
 
tick said:
It’s important to understand what we know, what we think we know, what we know we don’t know, and to admit that we don’t know what we don’t know sometimes.
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...and more importantly, don't apply facts to try to prove things that aren't directly related to your facts.

As we used to say in research "Tell me the result you want, and I'll design a study that can be misquoted to prove it."
 
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Mikie said:
Although we both may believe in your Mom's Chile Relleno, my point is I do not believe in Flu Shots. But you probably already guessed that... :p
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A friend thinks flu shots, and all vaccines, are due to a conspiracy at some level. But then he does think about everything is due to a conspiracy. So I just shake my head, keep my mouth shut Bout it and say let's ride.

But in my mind I'm rolling my eyes....and thinking "you should stay of the 'net".
 
Danimal said:
A friend thinks flu shots, and all vaccines, are due to a conspiracy at some level. But then he does think about everything is due to a conspiracy. So I just shake my head, keep my mouth shut Bout it and say let's ride.

But in my mind I'm rolling my eyes....and thinking "you should stay off the 'net".
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Here is my thoughts on it... I try to use common sense, not saying it's all there but I have put some thought to this in the past. I first look at the number of deaths related to the flu, the deaths related to flu shots (which is minimal) and did some research. Seems the theory behind the flu vaccine is the exposure to vaccine antigens increases the antibody response in the immune system. This theory is flawed in that the influenza viruses are constantly mutating in order to survive. As the virus mutates, it is more capable of overwhelming a person whose immune system has been burdened by all of the additives in the vaccine such as mercury aluminum salts and foreign animal and human cells. When the body is forced to combat these pathogens, it is unprepared to face an attack from a new influenza mutation.

More disturbing to me is that the CDC estimates this year’s flu vaccine is only 30% effective. Creating a vaccine is a time consuming and arduous process. Moreover, no one knows how the virus will mutate from one year to the next. Each year the FDA meets to determine which strains will go into the vaccine based on recommendations from the World Health Organization (yeah, like I trust those idiots now...). Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong. And if the virus mutated, the body has no defense at all.

In an interview with CNBC, John Shiver, global head of research and development at Sanofi Pasteur, which produces the bulk of flu vaccines in the U.S. stated: “There’s a lot of good methodology, but it’s not foolproof, so some years are better than others. This year is one of those years where H3N2 is a bit divergent from what’s in the vaccine, so the vaccine is appearing to be less effective overall.”

My anticipation is we are in for a rough winter as well. Another opportunity for a pandemic mentality.
So just like with antibiotics, I would rather build my natural immune system as oppose to allow it to rely on generic chemicals pumped in my body. Some even say the mystic Epstein Barr and or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome has stemmed from Antibiotic shifts in some folks systems. I'll take my chances with healthy living and mutha nature. :)
 
Mikie said:
Here is my thoughts on it... I try to use common sense, not saying it's all there but I have put some thought to this in the past. I first look at the number of deaths related to the flu, the deaths related to flu shots (which is minimal) and did some research. Seems the theory behind the flu vaccine is the exposure to vaccine antigens increases the antibody response in the immune system. This theory is flawed in that the influenza viruses are constantly mutating in order to survive. As the virus mutates, it is more capable of overwhelming a person whose immune system has been burdened by all of the additives in the vaccine such as mercury aluminum salts and foreign animal and human cells. When the body is forced to combat these pathogens, it is unprepared to face an attack from a new influenza mutation.

More disturbing to me is that the CDC estimates this year’s flu vaccine is only 30% effective. Creating a vaccine is a time consuming and arduous process. Moreover, no one knows how the virus will mutate from one year to the next. Each year the FDA meets to determine which strains will go into the vaccine based on recommendations from the World Health Organization (yeah, like I trust those idiots now...). Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong. And if the virus mutated, the body has no defense at all.

In an interview with CNBC, John Shiver, global head of research and development at Sanofi Pasteur, which produces the bulk of flu vaccines in the U.S. stated: “There’s a lot of good methodology, but it’s not foolproof, so some years are better than others. This year is one of those years where H3N2 is a bit divergent from what’s in the vaccine, so the vaccine is appearing to be less effective overall.”

My anticipation is we are in for a rough winter as well. Another opportunity for a pandemic mentality.
So just like with antibiotics, I would rather build my natural immune system as oppose to allow it to rely on generic chemicals pumped in my body. Some even say the mystic Epstein Barr and or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome has stemmed from Antibiotic shifts in some folks systems. I'll take my chances with healthy living and mutha nature. :)
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Well stated

I'm typically on the fence... many years I don't bother, I typically have a good immune system, more prone to sinus infections than anything... I don't remember the last time I have had proper influenza.... at least that was bad enough to think it was more than a cold. However, I started getting flu shots a few years ago when my father got cancer, and had no immune system. I got it this year, just the other day. I went for a dermo appointment and they offered so I said sure. As @Mikie said.. it will probably be a rough winter... so if I have a few extra antibodies why not.

Mostly, at this point in my life, I see it as a way to protect vulnerable people around me.
 
Mikie said:
I got a Flu shot once.............once. :gag: Got sicker than I have ever been. Never again. :coffee:
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We used to be required to get them for work every year. I got sick every single year after getting the shot. After year three of this, I went to our association (NO, the police do NOT have "unions".....at least not unions that can legally strike for any reason whatsoever) and told them I was going to file a grievance over getting my sick time back since they were forcing to get a shot. They informed the City of my intentions. Lo and behold, flu shots were voluntary after that. I haven't had one since. I very rarely get sick and when I do, it's sinus related which turns into a sore, scratchy throat and I get told every time "there's nothing we can doing for you, you just need to wait it out".
 
About 10 years ago I was at the doctor's office for sinus infection and they said "hey you want your flu shot?" i got one and went down hard with the flu. I will never get a flu shot again voluntarily!

I'm not an anti-vaxer but i just dont feel the flu vaccine is worth it for me. The flu strain is such a moving target.

I'm curious to see what they do when the COVID vaccine is out and if they make it mandatory.
 
For those of you who got sick after having a flu shot, you either had an adverse reaction or you were in the process of catching the flu already. It takes several days for our bodies to build up some degree of immunity after the flu shot is given. It's not instantaneous and it's not guaranteed to stop the flu. You may still become infected/ill but you will generally have lighter symptoms.

Simply put, you cannot contract the flu from the vaccine. It is not a live/active virus.
 
Dirtrider.... said:
I'm curious to see what they do when the COVID vaccine is out and if they make it mandatory.
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I think it is too early to tell. If people feel the vaccine isn't safe, or isn't effective, they aren't going to get it - regardless of whether the Feds try to make it mandatory.

That is why it is really important to get the science right. And given the half-truths, hyperbole, and political positioning that has been going on with this pandemic, I think people are going to be extremely skeptical unless the science is rock solid.
 
Dirtrider.... said:
I'm curious to see what they do when the COVID vaccine is out and if they make it mandatory.
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It's going to be about as effective as the flu vaccine, me thinks. Reason being is, just like all viruses, it will periodically mutate.

@Mikie stated above that this year's flu vaccine is rated to be about 30% effective. That doesn't make it 70% ineffective. What is does do is make me 30% less likely to contract the flu virus.
 
SnakeCharmer said:
It's going to be about as effective as the flu vaccine, me thinks. Reason being is, just like all viruses, it will periodically mutate.

@Mikie stated above that this year's flu vaccine is rated to be about 30% effective. That doesn't make it 70% ineffective. What is does do is make me 30% less likely to contract the flu virus.
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Luckily so far, this Corona stain is very slow to mutate.

I saw something on the news yesterday about possibly needing two doses of the vaccine?
 
Derkderkall said:
Luckily so far, this Corona stain is very slow to mutate.

I saw something on the news yesterday about possibly needing two doses of the vaccine?
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"Mutate" in one sentence and "vaccine" in the next. A vaccine is useless against a virus that mutates. Which is why there is yearly flu shots, Convid-19 will be the same. In a few years all those eagerly wanting their vaccines will probably be able to get a twofer (flu and convid). Good luck with that.
 
Redman said:
"Mutate" in one sentence and "vaccine" in the next. A vaccine is useless against a virus that mutates. Which is why there is yearly flu shots, Convid-19 will be the same. In a few years all those eagerly wanting their vaccines will probably be able to get a twofer (flu and convid). Good luck with that.
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Not completely true. A mutated virus still has some of the properties of it's last form which is why, in this case, vaccines can have some effect in minimizing symptoms.

And yes, I fully expect to see a twofer vaccine, if it's safe to mix the two. Makes perfect sense.
 
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