E-bikes everywhar....

If you can't tell the difference between a dirt bike and eBike, then your emotions about eBikes is probably a bigger issue than the actual threat they provide.

I can climb faster than most eBike riders can, I can most certainly go farther, faster, for longer. My fastest time on Loch Leven would have eaten up about half the battery of a Levo, I went on to continue for a 50 mile ride. A Levo owner would have had to turn around, and still not likely have the KOM (I don't have the KOM either, but a "respectable" time). Now if that same rider wants to enjoy going up Loch Leven and enjoy Post Office Loop, (s)he will have to turn the knob back in order to still have battery to get back up Middle Control and coast back down. That's not going to destroy any trails, and those people still won't get to see half of my ride. On the other hand, if my wife wanted to go with me on a leisurely ride, she would need to ride an eBike to even have a hope of keeping up on the climb (she would still struggle), and I would have to skip the descents because she wouldn't be able to.

I did some quick math to come up with those estimates, they didn't just come out of my ass.

And no, she doesn't have an eBike, nor is there an interest. That was a hypothetical. She has her horses.

I also see a constant flow of people complaining about Skypark not having a shuttle or lift to ride their trails. And those are from established riders, not new eBike riders (they allow eBikes).

I think some of you seriously need to evaluate why you are upset about these bikes. Is it really because you think they are a threat, when in reality I can do more damage to the trails than they can, or you just upset that people don't have to put in the same amount of work to get the same reward? If that's the case, I know a lot of people who work half (or less) as much as I do and still destroy me in my races. I train VERY hard, and still get killed by people who have a more natural gift. I'm not upset that they don't have to work to reach my fitness, I'm not smart enough to be an astronaut either.

But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

SnakeCharmer said:
I wonder how many horsepower and how much torque a healthy horse can make. I'll be the torque is high.
Click to expand...
I just used a horsepower calculator for Bonneville salt flat cars. I got 25 MPH out of my horse once on a wide open river bed, he was flat out (FYI, 25 MPH on a horse feels like 55 MPH on a bicycle). That calculated out to...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
1 HP

(It did add rolling resistance, which he obviously doesn't have. So maybe closer to 1.5 HP?)
 
Sidewalk said:
If you can't tell the difference between a dirt bike and eBike, then your emotions about eBikes is probably a bigger issue than the actual threat they provide.
Click to expand...

I don't think mountain bikes provide a "threat" to the wilderness trails south of Ortega Highway. That doesn't mean that I ride there. If you have an issue with the use rules in our National Forests and Parks, feel free to take it up with appropriate authorities. Just don't make up your own rules because you feel you know better than everyone else.

Electric bicycles have been around for more than 100 years. In fact, they predate gasoline powered cycles. The only "news" is that, with the advent of high-capacity battery technology, they are now powerful enough (and have long enough range) to be used on back country trails. For some people, they view it as the "motorized vehicle" end-run that they can use to conveniently ignore trail use rules. "An e-bike isn't a motorized vehicle." "E-bikes don't have motors." Give me a break.

I don't have to justify why e-bikes shouldn't be allowed on mountain bike trails. They aren't. Full stop. So yes - it annoys the hell out of me when I see dirt bikes, or e-bikes (same difference) on non-motorized trails. Just like it annoys the hell out of me when I see mountain bikers on wilderness trails where they aren't allowed - or people trying to take their 4-wheel drive vehicles down Santiago Truck Trail. There is always someone who feels they are the exception - because they are "special" and know better than everyone else. If you have a special argument for your special e-bike needs - take it up with the ranger. Meanwhile, stay off our trails with your e-bike.
 
EB7F26EC-DF07-4607-90B2-7918A37D7199.png
 
BonsaiNut said:
I don't think mountain bikes provide a "threat" to the wilderness trails south of Ortega Highway. That doesn't mean that I ride there. If you have an issue with the use rules in our National Forests and Parks, feel free to take it up with appropriate authorities. Just don't make up your own rules because you feel you know better than everyone else.

Electric bicycles have been around for more than 100 years. In fact, they predate gasoline powered cycles. The only "news" is that, with the advent of high-capacity battery technology, they are now powerful enough (and have long enough range) to be used on back country trails. For some people, they view it as the "motorized vehicle" end-run that they can use to conveniently ignore trail use rules. "An e-bike isn't a motorized vehicle." "E-bikes don't have motors." Give me a break.

I don't have to justify why e-bikes shouldn't be allowed on mountain bike trails. They aren't. Full stop. So yes - it annoys the hell out of me when I see dirt bikes, or e-bikes (same difference) on non-motorized trails. Just like it annoys the hell out of me when I see mountain bikers on wilderness trails where they aren't allowed - or people trying to take their 4-wheel drive vehicles down Santiago Truck Trail. There is always someone who feels they are the exception - because they are "special" and know better than everyone else. If you have a special argument for your special e-bike needs - take it up with the ranger. Meanwhile, stay off our trails with your e-bike.
Click to expand...
All we are saying is don't let it get you frustrated. You will never have control of it. I understand it is illegal and don't ride them or have much desire to. When seen on the trail I realize it going to make very little difference in the grand scheme if they are there or not. Now go ride your bike and leave your worries behind.
 
LLPoolJ said:
Well said @Sidewalk. Let's ride tonight
Click to expand...
I need to fix the horse shelter tonight :(

And I'm hoping to build a wheel for the Enduro this weekend too.

BonsaiNut said:
I don't think mountain bikes provide a "threat" to the wilderness trails south of Ortega Highway. That doesn't mean that I ride there. If you have an issue with the use rules in our National Forests and Parks, feel free to take it up with appropriate authorities. Just don't make up your own rules because you feel you know better than everyone else.
Click to expand...
Will you please tell everyone on the roads that I legally ride my bicycle on to stop texting, speeding, and running stop signs? I imagine you drive like a saint...

I'm not riding an eBike, I don't have an interest in one either. But I'm not offended when I see one either, unless I'm on a Strava run and they get in my way. Yelling "STRAVA!!!!!" takes energy I would rather put into my downhill run.
 
BonsaiNut said:
I don't have to justify why e-bikes shouldn't be allowed on mountain bike trails. They aren't. Full stop. So yes - it annoys the hell out of me when I see dirt bikes, or e-bikes (same difference) on non-motorized trails. Just like it annoys the hell out of me when I see mountain bikers on wilderness trails where they aren't allowed - or people trying to take their 4-wheel drive vehicles down Santiago Truck Trail. There is always someone who feels they are the exception - because they are "special" and know better than everyone else. If you have a special argument for your special e-bike needs - take it up with the ranger. Meanwhile, stay off our trails with your e-bike.
Click to expand...


I agree with your point, but I don't let it get to me.
 
Sidewalk said:
I can climb faster than most eBike riders can, I can most certainly go farther, faster, for longer.

I think some of you seriously need to evaluate why you are upset about these bikes. Is it really because you think they are a threat, when in reality I can do more damage to the trails than they can, or you just upset that people don't have to put in the same amount of work to get the same reward?
Click to expand...

My problem with this argument is that there are very few riders as fit and fast as you in any given area, and those riders probably (not always) have a decent respect for the trails they ride since they spent so many hours and so much hard work earning their speed and fitness. So when you have a few riders, such as yourself, in an area who can outperform an ebike, I wouldn't expect it to have any impact on trail conflicts, or even trail wear since there are relatively few of you.

But, when you suddenly have increasing numbers of riders who have the speed and range (but likely not the skill) to ride as far and fast as you ride, in the crowded suburban parks of OC, that's going to present a big problem. I think there is a big difference in the mentality of riders who have earned their speed and riding range versus those who simply bought it. OC is probably a fairly unique area where all of the ebike problems are compounded. The trails are already crowded, and it's a very affluent area where the price of these off road mopeds is not a barrier for a lot of people. There are also plenty of trails here that wouldn't make sense to shuttle with a truck, but are now being self-shuttled on electric downhill bikes.

Ignoring the general objections that many of us (myself included) have to having motorized vehicles on non-motorized trails, the trail conflict and access issues are likely to be very regional. In areas where you're unlikely to encounter another rider or hiker all day, it probably won't make any difference if someone cruises by on an ebike occasionally. But if you suddenly have lots of ebikes speeding through an already crowded trail system, there are going to be problems and blowback toward all mountain bikers.
 
BonsaiNut said:
From their web site:

Mountain Bike Tours
People visit the area from all around the world to experience the best mountain biking trails in southern California! If you’re looking for an experienced mountain biking tour guide for the So Cal area, you’ve found it! We have beautiful trails near the store if you would like a tour of our neck of the woods or just give us a call and we will meet you at your local trail! Let the Open Trails guides show you the mountain and explain how "Uphill is the new Downhill! Contact or visit Open Trails EMTB us today for more information.

[EDIT] I just sent them this email: On your website, it sounds like you are supporting / encouraging eBike use in Angeles National Forest(?) For the record, eBikes are not allowing on any of the bike-legal trails in the National Forest. If you have any questions, feel free to contact the ranger at (626) 574-1613. [/EDIT]
Click to expand...

"Uphill is the new Downhill!" - Really?! That has to be one of the most irresponsible statements I've seen in mountain biking (okay - I'm probably exaggerating a bit , but I honestly can't think of one right now)! People riding uphill at downhill speeds is one of my biggest concerns with ebikes. I'm sure some trails would be fun to ride up at downhill speeds - if it were a closed course, but what do you think is going to happen when you come across someone riding downhill at downhill speeds?!:eek: God help us if people on ebikes start deciding that the Luge is really fun to fly UP! Let's see, closing speeds of 30-40mph when the head on collision happens?:bang: Hmm ... I wonder how the rock garden on Rock-it rides going uphill at 20mph? The possibilities are endless:gag:
 
HBkites said:
Well put.... (I wish I know how to do multiple quotes in one post. Is there a youtube video link?)
Click to expand...

mtnbikej said:
Hit Reply, then hit Reply on the next thread you wanna quote.
Click to expand...

It's easier to do it this way: Just drag over the text you want to reply to. A little "reply" button will pop up. Hit it, and then drag over the next text you want to quote, and another "reply" button will pop up. Click on that one and both quotes will be in your reply text box.
 
LLPoolJ said:
I come to this forum to enjoy riding through others eyes and it's bumming me out that it's becoming more political. I don't watch TV, read newspapers or listen to much radio for this reason.
Click to expand...
I agree with you for the most part except for when there is a terrifying wind driven wildfire near my location. At those times, I have the news radio channel on continuously when I drive, and I have the TV news channel on continuously when I am home. :eek:
 
MattB said:
"Uphill is the new Downhill!" - Really?! That has to be one of the most irresponsible statements I've seen in mountain biking (okay - I'm probably exaggerating a bit , but I honestly can't think of one right now)! People riding uphill at downhill speeds is one of my biggest concerns with ebikes. I'm sure some trails would be fun to ride up at downhill speeds - if it were a closed course, but what do you think is going to happen when you come across someone riding downhill at downhill speeds?!:eek: God help us if people on ebikes start deciding that the Luge is really fun to fly UP! Let's see, closing speeds of 30-40mph when the head on collision happens?:bang: Hmm ... I wonder how the rock garden on Rock-it rides going uphill at 20mph? The possibilities are endless:gag:
Click to expand...
I've already experienced this on Meadows. I would be the first to admit that Meadows in Aliso would be a great uphill flow trail for an e-MtB. But you are right on the money, the closing speed and the poor visibility on the top half are a recipe for disaster. But hey, at least that would be between two "mt bikers" and wouldn't involve other trail users. :confused:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top