E-bikes everywhar....

My take on e-bikes and backcountry trails comes down to this:

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I live in Orange County. When I take a photo like this, I know that I am within 20 miles of 3 million people. But I am all alone. Why? Because to take this photo, you have to burn 2250 calories. You have to "earn" it. I know that I am e-bike access away from 3 million people standing up here with me.

Call me an elitist, but if you had a helicopter capable of flying you to the summit of Mt. Everest, would you appreciate it as much as someone who had to toil up its slopes?

The wilds hold a special place for me, and "effort" is the price you need to pay to participate. Right now, I can have all sorts of special moments - even in Orange County - because they don't allow motorized vehicles in most areas back in the National Forest. E-bikes are the cheat that the slackers have been waiting for. I am older and frailer than most of these poseurs. Get off your asses and ride a bike - and if you can't be bothered then don't whine when you don't get to see what I get to see.
 
BonsaiNut said:
I live in Orange County. When I take a photo like this, I know that I am within 20 miles of 3 million people. But I am all alone.
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This always amazes me whenever I ride in OC or the Santa Monicas: So many people just a few miles away, and nobody out there on the trails. Today I rode a 30 mile loop around OC, majority of it dirt. Part of our conversation was how we were basically all by ourselves out there. In our seven hour ride, we saw less that 30 people I'm guessing, and of those, maybe only 15 on bikes. I am saddened by that, as I think riding bikes is one of the most amazing things to do in the known universe, and want everyone to enjoy it as much as I do. The flip side is I can't imagine how crowded it would be on those same trails if even a fraction of the population decided to take up the activity.
 
BonsaiNut said:
Yeah well I can guarantee you I am not worried about the "fewer than ten" elite riders that you seem to hang with on a regular basis. I am concerned with the 10,000 riders swarming those trails on a weekend - many of whom look like they are going to pass out riding from the parking lot to the bottom of Coyote Run.
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Easy there B-Nut, I am simply describing the e-bikers I am encountering every weekend in Aliso or LCWP. I am not arguing that all e-bikers are this or all e-bikers are that. Someone above described the E-MtBers they are seeing as fully padded up "stormtroopers" and that has not been what I have encountered. I have been surprised by those I have seen - I expected to see the old, the infirm, the overweight or the MtB newbs. I've seen a few in those categories over at Whiting and STT.

The overpopulation of MtBers in Aliso is not yet attributable to e-mtbs, but the motor-pedal bike abominations certainly won't help.

Oh, and I don't hang with Laguna's elite riders. I couldn't if I wanted to.
 
BonsaiNut said:
My take on e-bikes and backcountry trails comes down to this:

View attachment 34272

I live in Orange County. When I take a photo like this, I know that I am within 20 miles of 3 million people. But I am all alone. Why? Because to take this photo, you have to burn 2250 calories. You have to "earn" it. I know that I am e-bike access away from 3 million people standing up here with me.

Call me an elitist, but if you had a helicopter capable of flying you to the summit of Mt. Everest, would you appreciate it as much as someone who had to toil up its slopes?

The wilds hold a special place for me, and "effort" is the price you need to pay to participate. Right now, I can have all sorts of special moments - even in Orange County - because they don't allow motorized vehicles in most areas back in the National Forest. E-bikes are the cheat that the slackers have been waiting for. I am older and frailer than most of these poseurs. Get off your asses and ride a bike - and if you can't be bothered then don't whine when you don't get to see what I get to see.
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Unfortunately, as far as being remote is concerned, e-bikes are legal on the Main Divide, Maple Springs and anywhere motor vehicles are allowed in the Cleveland NF. So while the single tracks and some Forest roads are off-limits, we can tick off 2249 Harding calories with at least the hope that anyone around us got there under their own power, but at Calorie 2250 we are back in motor world.

And one of the problems is, how do you keep someone on a motorized mountain bike from dropping Joplin when they love riding, they've legally cruised to the top of it, and that's what the bike is made for?

These (currently) low-powered motor/cycles are on the verge of changing everything. They take a mountain range like the Santa Ana's, which is very challenging to the human-powered crowd, and turn it into a mountain bike park. These batteries are basically chairlifts hanging on downtubes.
 
kioti said:
These (currently) low-powered motor/cycles are on the verge of changing everything. They take a mountain range like the Santa Ana's, which is very challenging to the human-powered crowd, and turn it into a mountain bike park. These batteries are basically chairlifts hanging on downtubes.
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The one person I know that has an eBike basically bought it for that reason. It allows him to shuttle trails that he would normally have to jump in with others in trucks.

I know a lot of people here shuttle too, so it isn't like shuttling is an unacceptable practice. I don't like doing it, but will on occasion.
 
Sidewalk said:
The one person I know that has an eBike basically bought it for that reason. It allows him to shuttle trails that he would normally have to jump in with others in trucks.

I know a lot of people here shuttle too, so it isn't like shuttling is an unacceptable practice. I don't like doing it, but will on occasion.
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I guess will see how popular the shuttle trend gets?.......
 
In spite of my well-known feelings about emtbs on non motorized trails, Its clear that if someone uses a small electric motor on their bike instead of a giant gasoline burning truck engine to shuttle DH trails that’s much better for the environment. But I think that’s a small percentage of emtbers in my area I’ll bet most still drive to the trail head, so then it’s car engine plus bike engine. Not really a lot of car shuttle trails in Orange County, just the backside aliso trails (which are illegal even for us except stairs) and San Juan/Chiquito. Like kioti said, it’s possible they will up the crowd factor in areas like the backcountry Santa Ana’s. But probably not on Wednesday’s which is good for me
 
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I differ on my feelings of something with a motor be non human powered. I ride dirtbikes and enjoy it in legal areas. I ride similar mileage rides that I do on MTB and usually am more tired from the motor scooter. One reason I started MTBING. Now I will admit I ride different terrain than a normal dirtbike rider. I challenge myself just like I do on my MTB. And get the same feeling when I am alone or with a few buddies high above the valley floor knowing that very few people try the things we do.
These obstacles will use all of your human power and then some. Sometimes takes a couple of us to HAB an impossible spot.

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BonsaiNut said:
My take on e-bikes and backcountry trails comes down to this:

View attachment 34272

I live in Orange County. When I take a photo like this, I know that I am within 20 miles of 3 million people. But I am all alone. Why? Because to take this photo, you have to burn 2250 calories. You have to "earn" it. I know that I am e-bike access away from 3 million people standing up here with me.

Call me an elitist, but if you had a helicopter capable of flying you to the summit of Mt. Everest, would you appreciate it as much as someone who had to toil up its slopes?

The wilds hold a special place for me, and "effort" is the price you need to pay to participate. Right now, I can have all sorts of special moments - even in Orange County - because they don't allow motorized vehicles in most areas back in the National Forest. E-bikes are the cheat that the slackers have been waiting for. I am older and frailer than most of these poseurs. Get off your asses and ride a bike - and if you can't be bothered then don't whine when you don't get to see what I get to see.
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Yup My point exactly.

To me: they are a lot of what is wrong with America. Most don't want to put in hard work to get what others have or experience.
 
DBMX119 said:
Most don't want to put in hard work to get what others have or experience
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On the flip side, they will never get it either. If you get an eBike and race an Ironman triathlon, you will most certainly not feel the same level of accomplishment as I did. You may have been there, but you won't feel it. Same with making epic climbs in the mountains. Sure, they may enjoy the downhill, but they won't feel the rush of making that climb.

That's all I can tell them. Just let them know that sure, it's fun, but you'll never get the fulfillment I get.
 
Sidewalk said:
On the flip side, they will never get it either. If you get an eBike and race an Ironman triathlon, you will most certainly not feel the same level of accomplishment as I did. You may have been there, but you won't feel it. Same with making epic climbs in the mountains. Sure, they may enjoy the downhill, but they won't feel the rush of making that climb.

That's all I can tell them. Just let them know that sure, it's fun, but you'll never get the fulfillment I get.
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I give you.. "E-ronman!" (batteries not included). :cool:

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Cyclotourist said:
This always amazes me whenever I ride in OC or the Santa Monicas: So many people just a few miles away, and nobody out there on the trails. Today I rode a 30 mile loop around OC, majority of it dirt. Part of our conversation was how we were basically all by ourselves out there. In our seven hour ride, we saw less that 30 people I'm guessing, and of those, maybe only 15 on bikes. I am saddened by that, as I think riding bikes is one of the most amazing things to do in the known universe, and want everyone to enjoy it as much as I do. The flip side is I can't imagine how crowded it would be on those same trails if even a fraction of the population decided to take up the activity.
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Hey, I'm all about sharing my passion about the outdoors with people but I'm also passionate about keep trail traffic as low as possible.
 
konakc said:
El moro mondays... hardly anyone...
I once rode holy jim trabuco on monday..only saw one truck... and one bike.. one chipmunk
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Holy Jim / Trabuco during the week is amazing. My experience has been similar to yours... no one out there.

A couple of months ago I did the BlackStar / Motorway loop. The only people I saw back on the trails were rangers working on the new fire break above Corona. Then I popped out at the bottom of the Motorway and suddenly people were everywhere :)
 
BonsaiNut said:
Holy Jim / Trabuco during the week is amazing. My experience has been similar to yours... no one out there.

A couple of months ago I did the BlackStar / Motorway loop. The only people I saw back on the trails were rangers working on the new fire break above Corona. Then I popped out at the bottom of the Motorway and suddenly people were everywhere :)
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My most surreal moment was July 4th 2016. I did the Holy Jim to Harding loop. I saw one or two people the whole way... Until I popped out at the nature center, and landed right in the middle of the parade. :confused:
 
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