Dare I post ... eBikes

herzalot said:
I don't walk up the hill when I ski, so I won't take up the position of "earn your descents" but I will continue to maintain that motorcycles shouldn't be on non motorcycle trails. That said, I also am not naive enough to think that someone out there is going to defend that stance and actually discern between motorized and non motorized bikes, so I am done trying to make that happen or expecting others to do so. I have a hard time getting my head out of the "I'm better than you" superiority mindset that comes from pedaling my bike under my own feeble power.

But I also see a metric Sh!t-ton of actual electric motorcycles on my trails now - and that pisses me off. Pegs, not pedals. Little spoiled shits dared to argue that since it's not a gas motor, it's not a motorcycle. I wanted to throw them and their throttle machines off the nearest cliff. Then I realized - I probably would have done the same thing when I was their age if I could have. Damn kids. GET OFF MY LAWN! :mad:
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If the motos would just stop trying to pass me on singletrack climbs, I’d be more inclined towards just ignoring them. But climbing at 10+ mph when the human powered trail users are going 1-4 mph is inappropriate.

30 years ago the bike biz got ahead of the curve with establishing right of way rules that put bikes on the bottom of the priority list, and supporting trail network expansion with money and muscle. They could do the same with ebikes, but instead they’ve chosen to do to the trails what Bird did with those e-scooters in LA: push them out and create a nuisance, but make them seem inevitable and ubiquitous, and hope that the authorities get overwhelmed with community support to make these sidewalk hazards legal. Bird just went bankrupt after committing fraud.
 
herzalot said:
I don't walk up the hill when I ski, so I won't take up the position of "earn your descents" but I will continue to maintain that motorcycles shouldn't be on non motorcycle trails. That said, I also am not naive enough to think that someone out there is going to defend that stance and actually discern between motorized and non motorized bikes, so I am done trying to make that happen or expecting others to do so. I have a hard time getting my head out of the "I'm better than you" superiority mindset that comes from pedaling my bike under my own feeble power.

But I also see a metric Sh!t-ton of actual electric motorcycles on my trails now - and that pisses me off. Pegs, not pedals. Little spoiled shits dared to argue that since it's not a gas motor, it's not a motorcycle. I wanted to throw them and their throttle machines off the nearest cliff. Then I realized - I probably would have done the same thing when I was their age if I could have. Damn kids. GET OFF MY LAWN! :mad:
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....the one reason I support all those Surron's is that hopefully they will become so ubiquitous and cause so many problems that the politicians will have no other recourse than to simply due a blanket ban on motorized vehicles the trails. That's literally the only chance to slow down the trajectory we are on now with ebikes.
 
stevers said:
Holy replies! I think I've stirred the pot. I'll let sleeping dogs lie. Can I stay a mountain biker if i take the regular bikes out every once in a while :)

If you see me at San Clemente, feel free to say hi or scowl. I'll welcome either!
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None of the people I've met who purchased an e-mt bike will go back to their pedal bikes for mt biking. I'm willing to bet you won't do it more than once. The shock to the system of going so slow and working so hard up the hills is just too much to tolerate after being used to the ease and speed of ascent with the motor.

And I won't scowl at you unless you do something scowl-worthy - I mean, beyond riding a moped. ;)
 
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It makes me laugh when I see people complain about e-bikes passing them uphills, try a full size race buggy trying to pass you up a climb, or a side by side, or quad. I’d be elated if it was just an e-bike or Surron. But I ride in the Wild West, anything goes.
 
Danmtchl said:
It makes me laugh when I see people complain about e-bikes passing them uphills, try a full size race buggy trying to pass you up a climb, or a side by side, or quad. I’d be elated if it was just an e-bike or Surron. But I ride in the Wild West, anything goes.
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I have to assume that if you work at a shop that sells e-bikes, you opinion is more broad spectrum. I wonder if all bike shops now sell or offer e-bikes. Has it finally come to that?
 
Its a brain thing, I love to hate climbing. My climbing is slow, getting slower. My downhill speed does not really change. I can drop Space out to my truck in 20 minutes less if I do not jump, more if I do. So I spend most of my saddle time climbing. An E bike can't keep up on the way down, I can't keep up when climbing. So I ride my game. and ignore the others. The trails I ride are narrow so any up hill traffic must wait until I yield.
Happy evenings on the narrow outback trails
 
SnakeCharmer said:
I have to assume that if you work at a shop that sells e-bikes, you opinion is more broad spectrum. I wonder if all bike shops now sell or offer e-bikes. Has it finally come to that?
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Yes we sell e-bikes, Trek, Specialized and Electra. We sell a ton of them, especially Levos. But there are alot of capable riders who buy them because they want to go further longer. I don’t always agree with their thinking but it’s their money and my boss will gladly take it. But I rarely see them actually riding in my area. I rode with a guy who had blown out knees, and could only ride an e-bike. Other than that he could ride more than a few miles before he had to turn around.

All the shops in my area sell e-bikes. All top tier brands in the bike world. The shops make money and that is how they pay the bills. We sold all our Fuel Ex-e models, like @stevers bought and people come in and want them. Would you rather have your LBS go out of business because you don’t like an e-bike. I hate trikes but we sell a ton of them, so we carry them to make money. That is why the shop is there in the first place.
 
Let's train the people and make them good trail citizens no matter what bike they are on. A bike doesn't make a person good or bad. All shops sell e-bikes and that's not likely to change. Almost all land managers are moving toward classifying and regulating class 1 e-bikes as ordinary bikes. Whether we agree or not, that seems to be happening and in most areas, officials no longer enforce the no-ebikes rules. I like to climb and I appreciate the suffering when I climb. That's part of my rides, particularly when not on e-bikes. I can go downhill on the e-bike as fast as I can on the regular bike. I can climb things that aren't close to possible to climb in a regular bike and explore trails not reachable (without hiking) on a regular bike. I can also get a full ride in from my house on an bike in just over an hour, which isn't possible on a pedal bike, and that one hour ride is a pretty serious workout as I try to put in the same effort on the e-bike as on the regular bike when I'm going for a workout ride. I would not give up my regular bike and I would not give up my e-bike.

I just love being in the cycling community and being a part of trail building, trail advocacy, high-school mountain bike teams and meetings with land managers....and I love bikes!
 
herzalot said:
None of the people I've met who purchased an e-mt bike will go back to their pedal bikes for mt biking. I'm willing to bet you won't do it more than once.
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You mean once a week or once like... ever? I'm on my 4th week with an e-bike and already put in 3 regular rides. Going for another pedal ride tomorrow, as time allows. I also have 6 bikes, so maybe not the usual ebiker? Did the people you know rage sell all their other pedal bikes?
 
stevers said:
You mean once a week or once like... ever? I'm on my 4th week with an e-bike and already put in 3 regular rides. Going for another pedal ride tomorrow, as time allows. I also have 6 bikes, so maybe not the usual ebiker? Did the people you know rage sell all their other pedal bikes?
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Not that I am aware of. But they (and by they, I mean two people) started with the same intentions as you. Their e-bike was ONE OF their bikes. But after about 6 months, it became the ONLY bike that they would ride. Both still claim they will ride their pedal-only bike (what we like to call "bike"), but they never do. And both are extremely fit, talented mt. bikers of Laguna lore. One even works at the local bike shop.

Maybe your experience will be different, but I am guessing that once you become accustomed to the easy speed up the hill, you too will not want to tolerate the pain and slowness of pedal power alone. Maybe you will ride your pedal-only bikes on flatter routes, but anything with over 1000' of climbing, you'll choose the ebike every time.
 
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Simply put, I don't have anything against e-bikes. What I do have a problem with is the owners of them who break the rules/laws. I also have a problem with the lack of enforcement by our law keepers.

Since the popularity of e-bikes is growing, I see a need to create/change/alter trail systems or regions or zones where ONLY e-bikes can roll or where BOTH can roll together. Those who do not want to roll with e-bikes can go ride where they are not allowed. OR, have designated e-bike days and designated non-e-bikes days on/in a given riding system/region/zone.

Some of these rules are already in place but they are not properly enforced. Increase the level of punishment, and those who do not follow the rules may begin to conform.
 
herzalot said:
Not that I am aware of. But they (and by they, I mean two people) started with the same intentions as you. Their e-bike was ONE OF their bikes. But after about 6 months, it became the ONLY bike that they would ride. Both still claim they will ride their pedal-only bike (what we like to call "bike"), but they never do. And both are extremely fit, talented mt. bikers of Laguna lore. One even works at the local bike shop.

Maybe your experience will be different, but I am guessing that once you become accustomed to the easy speed up the hill, you too will not want to tolerate the pain and slowness of pedal power alone. Maybe you will ride your pedal-only bikes on flatter routes, but anything with over 1000' of climbing, you'll choose the ebike every time.
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To each thier own.
I went riding up at the lake with a buddy of mine. There was a group of riders resting at the begining of a short but steep little climb, about the half way point, that always kicks my patooski.
One had an "motor"-bike and offered my buddy to take it up the hill. He did. He was raving about how easy it was to climb.
The owner offered to let me ride it, and I refused. He couldn't understand.
I told him I have never made it all the way on this climb. This is a victory that I want to earn.
I think he got it after that.
No I didn't clean it yet.
 
I think your experience that people who get e-bikes rarely ride regular bikes again is fairly common, but not the rule. I have had an e-bike in the stable for about 3 years and still ride the standard bike about 2x as often. I ride with different ride groups and know many guys who do the same as me. One of the groups is a group of 60ish year old guys (Matt Mertens, Tom Lathrop, Greg Ellis, etc) who are among the fastest and most capable around on both e-bikes and pedal bikes. About half my riding buddies ride both, but as you say, there are several who left regular bikes after only one or two e-bike rides and I still love to ride with both groups.

herzalot said:
Not that I am aware of. But they (and by they, I mean two people) started with the same intentions as you. Their e-bike was ONE OF their bikes. But after about 6 months, it became the ONLY bike that they would ride. Both still claim they will ride their pedal-only bike (what we like to call "bike"), but they never do. And both are extremely fit, talented mt. bikers of Laguna lore. One even works at the local bike shop.

Maybe your experience will be different, but I am guessing that once you become accustomed to the easy speed up the hill, you too will not want to tolerate the pain and slowness of pedal power alone. Maybe you will ride your pedal-only bikes on flatter routes, but anything with over 1000' of climbing, you'll choose the ebike every time.
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mtbMike said:
....the one reason I support all those Surron's is that hopefully they will become so ubiquitous and cause so many problems that the politicians will have no other recourse than to simply due a blanket ban on motorized vehicles the trails. That's literally the only chance to slow down the trajectory we are on now with ebikes.
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hope they won’t just blanket ban bikes. Which is the main issue with ebikes imo
 
sir crashalot said:
hope they won’t just blanket ban bikes. Which is the main issue with ebikes imo
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Outside of Commifornia, bikes aren't a problem and quite the opposite as communities are finding that building more and more bike trails has led to nothing but $$$ for the general fund coffers.... I think Fruita led the way in that regard but Bend, Bellingham, Bentonville (all of Arkansas actually), most of SW Utah, Prescott and many others have capitalized on MTB visitors. Plenty other communities are jumping on as well...Ely & Caliente (NV), Richfield & Ogden (UT) come to mind. I even rode some crazy fun stuff in Northern Louisiana and Illinois on my last road trip but never did see a MTB shop in those areas.
 
mtbMike said:
Outside of Commifornia, bikes aren't a problem and quite the opposite as communities are finding that building more and more bike trails has led to nothing but $$$ for the general fund coffers.... I think Fruita led the way in that regard but Bend, Bellingham, Bentonville (all of Arkansas actually), most of SW Utah, Prescott and many others have capitalized on MTB visitors. Plenty other communities are jumping on as well...Ely & Caliente (NV), Richfield & Ogden (UT) come to mind. I even rode some crazy fun stuff in Northern Louisiana and Illinois on my last road trip but never did see a MTB shop in those areas.
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At this rate, how long until there is a mountain bike quiver in each and every household? :eek:
 
mtbMike said:
Outside of Commifornia, bikes aren't a problem and quite the opposite as communities are finding that building more and more bike trails has led to nothing but $$$ for the general fund coffers.... I think Fruita led the way in that regard but Bend, Bellingham, Bentonville (all of Arkansas actually), most of SW Utah, Prescott and many others have capitalized on MTB visitors. Plenty other communities are jumping on as well...Ely & Caliente (NV), Richfield & Ogden (UT) come to mind. I even rode some crazy fun stuff in Northern Louisiana and Illinois on my last road trip but never did see a MTB shop in those areas.
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Can we let this sink in, maybe?
 
tick said:
I have no opinion about the potential impacts of ebike adoption on pedal bike access in Richfield, UT. I do have an opinion about Sandi’s Drive In though. It is a tasty burger and a good stop on your way to somewhere else.
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Faust29 said:
I recommend the Culvers Butterburger... I vaguely remember having one after Frog Hollow. I think it was really good!
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But will they serve e-bikers at those places?
 
mtbMike said:
Outside of Commifornia, bikes aren't a problem and quite the opposite as communities are finding that building more and more bike trails has led to nothing but $$$ for the general fund coffers.... I think Fruita led the way in that regard but Bend, Bellingham, Bentonville (all of Arkansas actually), most of SW Utah, Prescott and many others have capitalized on MTB visitors. Plenty other communities are jumping on as well...Ely & Caliente (NV), Richfield & Ogden (UT) come to mind. I even rode some crazy fun stuff in Northern Louisiana and Illinois on my last road trip but never did see a MTB shop in those areas.
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I meant specifically around here
 
Faust29 said:
I recommend the Culvers Butterburger... I vaguely remember having one after Frog Hollow. I think it was really good!
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There’s a Culver’s in Richfield? I did not know that.
SnakeCharmer said:
But will they serve e-bikers at those places?
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If the ebikers are white and aren’t openly gay, that part of UT will have no issues with you riding dune buggies through wilderness with seats upholstered with baby seals.
 
herzalot said:
Not that I am aware of. But they (and by they, I mean two people) started with the same intentions as you. Their e-bike was ONE OF their bikes. But after about 6 months, it became the ONLY bike that they would ride. Both still claim they will ride their pedal-only bike (what we like to call "bike"), but they never do. And both are extremely fit, talented mt. bikers of Laguna lore. One even works at the local bike shop.

Maybe your experience will be different, but I am guessing that once you become accustomed to the easy speed up the hill, you too will not want to tolerate the pain and slowness of pedal power alone. Maybe you will ride your pedal-only bikes on flatter routes, but anything with over 1000' of climbing, you'll choose the ebike every time.
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So what is your point Herz? As usual, it sounds like you have it all figured out. IMO, the more the "Ebike Haters Club" posts, the more their agenda is exposed. EGO. SELF-GLOSSING, WE ARE MASTERS OF OUR UNIVERSE... Seriously? I really should have deleted this but I am two tequila shots in and I just couldn't resist tonite. Sans the tequila, I still feel the same way. Three simple letters...EGO. Herz, please know that I am not singling you out. There are a few others on here that deserve honorable mention or more. I am a Ebike rider and advocate. I have paid my dues, so to say. I am just trying to stay relevant TO MYSELF. Whatever keeps me out there grinding ON MY OWN LEVEL, I will do. I know my own limitations and I really don't need to justify my existence here. I primarily try to ride where I am ALLOWED TO. I have gotten tired of seeing and hearing your smug looks and remarks when I have ventured into your hallowed ground. I am pretty much a lone wolf these days by choice. I know that I probably shouldn't even be venturing into THIS arena but I, as you, like the "juice". So there it is. If I have overstepped my bounds, I am sure Steph will let me know. Nothing political here boyz.
 
bpacifica said:
So what is your point Herz? As usual, it sounds like you have it all figured out. IMO, the more the "Ebike Haters Club" posts, the more their agenda is exposed. EGO. SELF-GLOSSING, WE ARE MASTERS OF OUR UNIVERSE... Seriously? I really should have deleted this but I am two tequila shots in and I just couldn't resist tonite. Sans the tequila, I still feel the same way. Three simple letters...EGO. Herz, please know that I am not singling you out. There are a few others on here that deserve honorable mention or more. I am a Ebike rider and advocate. I have paid my dues, so to say. I am just trying to stay relevant TO MYSELF. Whatever keeps me out there grinding ON MY OWN LEVEL, I will do. I know my own limitations and I really don't need to justify my existence here. I primarily try to ride where I am ALLOWED TO. I have gotten tired of seeing and hearing your smug looks and remarks when I have ventured into your hallowed ground. I am pretty much a lone wolf these days by choice. I know that I probably shouldn't even be venturing into THIS arena but I, as you, like the "juice". So there it is. If I have overstepped my bounds, I am sure Steph will let me know. Nothing political here boyz.
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You have me mistaken for someone who has taken a stronger stance against ebikes. After you sober up, go back and read my posts about ebikes. I don't call out ebikers for violating the laws or rules of the park because I violate the rules too by breaking the speed limit. And the statement that you are quoting also does not say anything derogatory about ebikes or ebikers - just that once they get used to the juice, they tend to prefer it. If you read my earlier posts, I express that ebikes are probably a lot of fun - just like other motorized sports. If you go back and look, I think you will find my comments far more accepting and less judgmental than others. OK, I did make a snarky comment about hedonism, but I put a winking emoji next to it.

Read my posts again. I'm not calling for banishment or law enforcement. I am no ebike advocate, but I have not taken a superiority stance (except in self mockery). When it comes to mt. biking of any kind, I am not superior to anyone! My stance has always been - if you need one, ride one.

I don't think motorcycles belong on trails intended for non motorized traffic, but I've given up on the idea that motorized bicycles will ever be considered motorcycles. I even mentioned a couple of posts up that in a few short years, all pedal bikes will probably have motors and we will most likely be reminiscing about the days when we used to pedal without motorized assistance and we will say to ourselves "what were we thinking?"

But I do post a lot - so maybe by default you think I am the number one e-bike hater on this forum. There's a long line ahead of me. Cheers! :thumbsup: :D
 
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tick said:
I have no opinion about the potential impacts of ebike adoption on pedal bike access in Richfield, UT. I do have an opinion about Sandi’s Drive In though. It is a tasty burger and a good stop on your way to somewhere else.
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Ideal Dairy! They have the best fresh sandwiches and tasty garlic chips to boot! And... Jorgenson's just down the street. Where else can you buy an ATV, dirt bike, mtn. bike, rv supplies or just go to the back of the store for guns and ammo all under one small roof? :inlove:
 
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