Coronavirus. Not to be confused with Norcovirus.

Status
Not open for further replies.
SnakeCharmer said:
I am watching the news and it would appear that a great many people are not practicing social distancing when they are out and about.
Click to expand...

My dad and I went to ride Chino Hills yesterday thinking it would be a good way to ride in a very open space. It was the busiest I have ever seen the place.

On top of that, the trails were closed due to wet and muddy conditions, so we were all confined to the paved road. My dad and tried to keep our distance from other users, but it was tough overall.
 
Hopefully one upside of all the increased user (hikers and bikers) traffic, especially now that we're getting all this rain, will be keeping some of the new vegetation growth pushed back.
 
Obsidian said:
I rode solo yesterday and it was a shitshow ... large groups of hikers mostly. I did not encounter any large groups of riders, but there were many groups of 2 & 3 riding right next to each other. The best were the families with small children ... at least 4 of the kids throughout my ride basically sprinted right across the trail right in front of me while playing. Can't blame them, they were doing what kids do, but parents need to do a better job of keeping the kids in the family group rather than letting them run wild.

I also ran into many instances of coming up behind another rider on singletrack sections with no way around. I just basically dropped back about 10 feet until I saw an opening and then sprinted past. I would think a rider in front breathing heavily and expelling germs into the air makes 10 ft essentially worthless though. I passed so many people yesterday within 1-2 feet that my social distancing strategy turned out to be completely useless. I was closer to more people on that ride than the number of people I encountered the rest of the week combined.

Today I am going well out of my way to ride somewhere where I know I can maintain distance, which is definitely not in Orange County.
Click to expand...

Believe me I thought about what you just mentioned about riding with your friends who are breathing heavily before I went out, I also promised myself I would keep a safe distance and I know now that is near impossible! So yes we are out spreading this highly contagious virus doing the only thing they know how to relieve this elevated anxiety out on the trails, and I’m feeling pretty guilty about it even though I only road with two other people and had the trail to ourselves. Back to riding solo for me with no fly byes!
 
Rode as usual this morning and saw one hiker with 2 leashed dogs and one other mountain biker all morning. As chance would have it, we all crossed paths at the same point on the trail. I find that every hill climb that I make and am not out of breath or drowning in my own lung butter is a pretty good sign for the time being.
 
SnakeCharmer said:
I am watching the news and it would appear that a great many people are not practicing social distancing when they are out and about. The mayor stated that fines may have to be issued for those not following the order. They showed public places like the local beaches and a pier that were slammed with people. The order given is to stay home yet we are free to go out and stay active for health purposes as long as we practice social distancing. But the pics shown on the news look like people are taking the time off from work as a vacation. Not good. This is not going to help slow the spread.
Click to expand...

You don't need to watch TV to see this. My wife and I were out for a hike yesterday, and there were groups (some with as many as 10 individuals) congregating. We stayed ahead, behind or veered off from all of them (trying to use more of a 20' rule). Also, I needed to pick up a prescription a couple of days ago in a pharmacy inside an Albertson's and as hard as I tried, couldn't distance myself from individuals when I entered or left the store. Many people seemed oblivious to the rule. Also, I really feel sorry for the employees that man the checkout areas. That's why (not trying to be an alarmist) it wouldn't surprise me to see more stringent measures. On the other hand the mayor or governor, whoever, allowed construction on the new stadium to continue because it was "essential".
 
herzalot said:
Thank you for that detailed response. So the "who" is the CDC, the pharmaceutical companies and public health policymakers. The "when" is immediately after the SARS outbreak of 2003 and the should have done "what" is identify, isolate, test and trace.

Alternatively, the who remains the same, the when was December 2019 and the should have done what remained the same. In the interim, policymakers should have been making plans for dealing with a pandemic we knew would eventually reach us or start here.

One problem is that policymakers do what they are influenced to do. If there is no profit in preparing for pandemic, there is no priority. It is easy to blame "policymakers" and government officials, but we elect the idiots and keep them in office, and our system is based entirely on influence peddling by those with the largest pursestrings.
Click to expand...

Agree we couldn't have been less responsive and actually would classify our scientific reaction as stupid unless there is an even more "stupid" term for it. As Americans, our response to things occurring in other countries is either send troops or ignore the situation since we're not being affected.
 
Obsidian said:
I rode solo yesterday and it was a shitshow ... large groups of hikers mostly. I did not encounter any large groups of riders, but there were many groups of 2 & 3 riding right next to each other. The best were the families with small children ... at least 4 of the kids throughout my ride basically sprinted right across the trail right in front of me while playing. Can't blame them, they were doing what kids do, but parents need to do a better job of keeping the kids in the family group rather than letting them run wild.

I also ran into many instances of coming up behind another rider on singletrack sections with no way around. I just basically dropped back about 10 feet until I saw an opening and then sprinted past. I would think a rider in front breathing heavily and expelling germs into the air makes 10 ft essentially worthless though. I passed so many people yesterday within 1-2 feet that my social distancing strategy turned out to be completely useless. I was closer to more people on that ride than the number of people I encountered the rest of the week combined.

Today I am going well out of my way to ride somewhere where I know I can maintain distance, which is definitely not in Orange County.
Click to expand...

Fortunately, I've been avoiding individuals for awhile for other reasons, so know a few places nearby.
 
fos'l said:
You don't need to watch TV to see this. My wife and I were out for a hike yesterday, and there were groups (some with as many as 10 individuals) congregating. We stayed ahead, behind or veered off from all of them (trying to use more of a 20' rule). Also, I needed to pick up a prescription a couple of days ago in a pharmacy inside an Albertson's and as hard as I tried, couldn't distance myself from individuals when I entered or left the store. Many people seemed oblivious to the rule. Also, I really feel sorry for the employees that man the checkout areas. That's why (not trying to be an alarmist) it wouldn't surprise me to see more stringent measures. On the other hand the mayor or governor, whoever, allowed construction on the new stadium to continue because it was "essential".
Click to expand...
Well, I am sorry to hear that. I tend to be the type of person that pays attention to detail so I can say that I have not seen groups of more than 4 anywhere in my area since the order was given, nor did I see that in the Palm Springs area yesterday. I do see many small groups out though and close contact between immediate family members, which I expect.
 
We’ve gotten out to walk the beach with our nearly-adult kids. The four of us don’t keep our distance from each other, but we’ve had good luck finding plenty of space from everyone else.

I’ve got my bike torn down for rainy-time maintenance so I haven’t gotten out between the raindrops. Given the financial panic, this bike is going to need to last, so time to show it some love...But I can imagine how nutty the open trails are.
 
Trying to decide if I should cancel my in-laws housekeeper for tomorrow or not (she comes every 2 weeks for about 2 hours and is very careful and wears a mask, shes been their housekeeper for years) on one hand she’s a possible vector and on the other hand it’s important to have a clean and disinfected home, if she doesn’t I or my wife will have to and we suck at it and we’re possible vectors too.
she sure needs the money
 
This should help with social distancing while you are waiting in line to get into the market.

aaaaHrd.jpg
 
BonsaiNut said:
FWIW... I'm going to be going to Joshua Tree next week with my daughter to hang out. Perfect place for some social distancing and a "legal" exercise outing.

The National Park is OPEN but they have closed the visitor center. Additionally, they aren't collecting fees at the gates.
Click to expand...
J tree now closed to drive thru traffic
https://www.nps.gov/jotr/index.htm
Apparently the town is also inundated by people fleeing the big cities.
 
BonsaiNut said:
The final BIG question:

Does this mean that China will FINALLY outlaw wild game being sold in food markets?

(In case people don't know, both SARS-CoV1 and SARS-CoV2 come from animals. In the case of SARS-CoV1 they traced the source back to bats. No one knows the source of SARS-CoV2 yet, other than it is an animal of some type. It may also turn out to be bats, but no one knows.)
Click to expand...

We could all stop eating meat.....?

Obsidian said:
I rode solo yesterday and it was a shitshow ... large groups of hikers mostly. I did not encounter any large groups of riders, but there were many groups of 2 & 3 riding right next to each other. The best were the families with small children ... at least 4 of the kids throughout my ride basically sprinted right across the trail right in front of me while playing. Can't blame them, they were doing what kids do, but parents need to do a better job of keeping the kids in the family group rather than letting them run wild.

I also ran into many instances of coming up behind another rider on singletrack sections with no way around. I just basically dropped back about 10 feet until I saw an opening and then sprinted past. I would think a rider in front breathing heavily and expelling germs into the air makes 10 ft essentially worthless though. I passed so many people yesterday within 1-2 feet that my social distancing strategy turned out to be completely useless. I was closer to more people on that ride than the number of people I encountered the rest of the week combined.

Today I am going well out of my way to ride somewhere where I know I can maintain distance, which is definitely not in Orange County.
Click to expand...

Where did you ride?
 
sir crashalot said:
Trying to decide if I should cancel my in-laws housekeeper for tomorrow or not (she comes every 2 weeks for about 2 hours and is very careful and wears a mask, shes been their housekeeper for years) on one hand she’s a possible vector and on the other hand it’s important to have a clean and disinfected home, if she doesn’t I or my wife will have to and we suck at it and we’re possible vectors too.
she sure needs the money
Click to expand...

I would not let her in.
 
SnakeCharmer said:
This should help with social distancing while you are waiting in line to get into the market.

View attachment 62948
Click to expand...
Sasquatch9billion said:
We could all stop eating meat.....?



Where did you ride?
Click to expand...


As a vegetarian (lacto-ovo so some might not include me in that category), I wholeheartedly agree...would probably have a big impact on climate change as well.

Sounds like the wet market thing exacerbates the wild animal consumption. They stack cages of animals on top of each other, and feces/urine/etc freely intermix for the ones lower down. Plenty of opportunity for viruses to jump species and mutate. Bat or maybe pangolin may have started this one.

The markets are (according to some) a product of Communism and food shortages, and government deregulating it to mitigate starvation. (Nice both-sidesism blamefest there).

Also according to some, another problem is the ultra wealthy in the region driving a market for eating rare and exotic species as a status symbol and/or attempts to ward off disease/live longer. (Analogous to elephant tusk/rhino horn demand and the “health benefits” touted driving the decline of those and other charismatic megafauna)
 
SnakeCharmer said:
This should help with social distancing while you are waiting in line to get into the market.

View attachment 62948
Click to expand...

I'm going with online ordering and home delivery...

Sassyquatch said:
As a vegetarian (lacto-ovo so some might not include me in that category), I wholeheartedly agree...would probably have a big impact on climate change as well.

Sounds like the wet market thing exacerbates the wild animal consumption. They stack cages of animals on top of each other, and feces/urine/etc freely intermix for the ones lower down. Plenty of opportunity for viruses to jump species and mutate. Bat or maybe pangolin may have started this one.

The markets are (according to some) a product of Communism and food shortages, and government deregulating it to mitigate starvation. (Nice both-sidesism blamefest there).

Also according to some, another problem is the ultra wealthy in the region driving a market for eating rare and exotic species as a status symbol and/or attempts to ward off disease/live longer. (Analogous to elephant tusk/rhino horn demand and the “health benefits” touted driving the decline of those and other charismatic megafauna)
Click to expand...

It's a well-known fact that properly handled, prepared and cooked meat does not transmit disease. Reconstituted keratin is just weird.
 
Ot
Runs with Scissors said:
I'm going with online ordering and home delivery...



It's a well-known fact that properly handled, prepared and cooked meat does not transmit disease. Reconstituted keratin is just weird.
Click to expand...



The wet market thing doesn’t necessarily mean the infection was obtained by ingestion, although improperly cooked meat could be a source. Physical contact with the animals by the sellers and buyers would be the far more risky part. (Analogous thing is the cut hunter hypothesis with HIV and chimps/SIV).

the bigger concern with the wet markets is the animal to animal transmission and possibility for virus spread and mutation....
 
Sassyquatch said:
Physical contact with the animals by the sellers and buyers would be the far more risky part. (Analogous thing is the cut hunter hypothesis with HIV and chimps/SIV). The bigger concern with the wet markets is the animal to animal transmission and possibility for virus spread and mutation....
Click to expand...

That's what I meant by properly handled.

Much of Asia and Africa - and no, that's not a "racist" statement, just a statement of fact - do not properly handle meat on the hoof.
 
sir crashalot said:
Trying to decide if I should cancel my in-laws housekeeper for tomorrow or not (she comes every 2 weeks for about 2 hours and is very careful and wears a mask, shes been their housekeeper for years) on one hand she’s a possible vector and on the other hand it’s important to have a clean and disinfected home, if she doesn’t I or my wife will have to and we suck at it and we’re possible vectors too.
she sure needs the money
Click to expand...
That's a tough decision Gary. My Dad is 85 in fairly good health but has COPD. Not sure if he could recover if he got the virus. He has three friends/borders living with him at his house and one is still working, but they are being careful, no symptoms, regular fever checks. My wife and I will not see him or get close to him now (we've had a number of medical appointments in the past couple weeks but thankfully have no symptoms). We don't want to be the ones to pass it to him. But really this thing is so random it could be the postman or gardeners that pass it.
Kind of related.... my Mom died a few years ago from complications from SARS, which is what this virus can lead to. She was on a respirator in ICU for weeks before she passed. Bad stuff.
 
Sassyquatch said:
The wet market thing doesn’t necessarily mean the infection was obtained by ingestion
Click to expand...

You cannot catch this virus by eating something. It is a respiratory virus and infects the lungs. If you get the virus in your mouth, the danger is that is stays in your mouth until you eventually inhale it - but if you swallow the virus it is destroyed by stomach acid.

SARS-CoV-1 was traced back to masked palm civets and then horseshoe bats. If you want to read something prophetic:

...they warn that a deadly outbreak could emerge again: the cave where the elements of SARS were found is just 1 kilometre from the nearest village, and genetic mixing among the viral strains is fast. "The risk of spillover into people and emergence of a disease similar to SARS is possible,” the authors write in their paper. (from 2017)
 
BonsaiNut said:
You cannot catch this virus by eating something. It is a respiratory virus and infects the lungs. If you get the virus in your mouth, the danger is that is stays in your mouth until you eventually inhale it - but if you swallow the virus it is destroyed by stomach acid.

SARS-CoV-1 was traced back to masked palm civets and then horseshoe bats. If you want to read something prophetic:

...they warn that a deadly outbreak could emerge again: the cave where the elements of SARS were found is just 1 kilometre from the nearest village, and genetic mixing among the viral strains is fast. "The risk of spillover into people and emergence of a disease similar to SARS is possible,” the authors write in their paper. (from 2017)
Click to expand...

It is primarily thought to spread by contact: initially enters the body via mucous membranes: eyes, nose, mouth. Then spreads down airways to lungs.

Mostly droplet related but fecal/oral thought to be another route.

Recently, some are suggesting may be able to aerosolize, but contact is still thought main route.

Yeah by far the greater likelihood would be contact with animals rather than eating, although the latter is not impossible, since mucous membranes are in the mouth and the shared common passage for oropharynx and nasopharynx.

Definitely these zoonotic infections are quite scary in their potential.
 
SnakeCharmer said:
Wow, that sucks!!! They want us to maintain our health by keeping active but they are taking the nice places to be active away from us?! :mad:

Next, they will impose Marital Law and have the Nat'l Guard out patrolling the streets. :facepalm:
Click to expand...

I was out at Joshua Tree today with my daughter, saying "goodbye" to one of our favorite parks. We have camped there 16 times over the years. I checked a couple of days ago, and there was a statement that the national park was OPEN, but there was no one taking tolls at the gates. However when we got close to arriving, there was a big emergency lighted sign at the side of the road saying "Joshua Tree is CLOSED to all vehicles". We got to the entrance to Indian Cove, and there were two rangers sitting at the closed gate. They said you could hike or bike in - but no cars. My daughter and I weren't prepared for hiking, but it was only 1.5 miles to the rock climbing area, so we decided to hoof it. It was weird to see the place almost completely empty. We saw two rock-climbing groups (a couple, and three guys) and a couple of people walking around on the dirt road, but that was it.

However we drove down to the next parking area (outside of Forty-Nine Palms Canyon) and the lot was full. There were lots of hiking groups, and some that numbered five or more... passing other hiking groups of five or more headed in the opposite direction on a narrow trail. It looked way too crowded to be safe, so my daughter and I drove through and hiked elsewhere.

I was surprised to see MANY vehicles with out-of-state plates. I will say this - aside from Forty-Nine Palms, there was not much traffic ANYWHERE. Definitely not on the highways, nor in the cities on the north side of the park. With few exceptions, almost everything was closed. My daughter and I packed in our food, so it wasn't a problem.

Please stay at least 6' away from the nearest person!

jtree.jpg


jtree2.jpg
 
Last edited:
sir crashalot said:
J tree now closed to drive thru traffic
https://www.nps.gov/jotr/index.htm
Apparently the town is also inundated by people fleeing the big cities.
Click to expand...
So now might be a good time for me to visit. Ride in and camp, do some hiking. No crowds. Perfect.

rossage said:
After what I saw up on the 2 today, I wouldn't be surprised if they just closed the gate at the bottom.
Click to expand...
Might not be a bad thing. Like Joshua Tree, ride or hike in if you can. But no vehicle access. I would be ok with that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top