Aliso-Wood and Laguna Coast Wilderness Parks
- Thread starter herzalot
- Start date
herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
OK Kids - Buckle up. It's the beginning of the end.
I received this photo today of an off-menu trail in Aliso. I was told OC Parks did this.
As I have been saying, the massive influx of riders in large groups, posting on social media and widening the trails out of ignorance or indifference have forced the hands of local officials. So now the destruction of the very best trails in Orange County has begun. Thanks asshats!
I received this photo today of an off-menu trail in Aliso. I was told OC Parks did this.
As I have been saying, the massive influx of riders in large groups, posting on social media and widening the trails out of ignorance or indifference have forced the hands of local officials. So now the destruction of the very best trails in Orange County has begun. Thanks asshats!
tick
Well-Known Member
That is the least messing-around way to do it that I’ve ever seen. Are they planting shrubs or just going for visible destruction?
herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
I'm guessing straight up destruction.
tick
Well-Known Member
Two weeks until the holes are filled in or there’s a four foot wide reroute through the bushes.
And the countdown to the end of the sport continues.
sir crashalot
iMTB Rockstah
I heard the holes are on almost the entire 1 mile trail.
Ebruner
Well-Known Member
as someone who does a lot of civil engineering, I can't see how that doesn't put that slope at great risk of erosion. I get it, they can't figure out how to get people off of the trails, however this definitely sends the wrong message to people maintaining these trails that destruction of the sub grade doesn't actually matter.
mtbMike
iMTB Rockstah
True statement. ^^ Besides, it’s not as if this area was “designed” or ever to be intended to be for mountain biking. That is obvious my most of the actual “trail” designs. It’s pretty much the exact opposite of Greer which was all made BY mountain bikers, FOR mountain bikers with ONLY mountain bikers in mind. Consequently, even though there is now 10X the hikers there’s ever been, they stay off the actual trails and on the “road(s)” that lead into the riding area.
mtbMike
iMTB Rockstah
My first thought exactly....”how is this any better than mountain bikes on the trail from an environmental angle”.
sir crashalot
iMTB Rockstah
The environmental angle is not trail erosion, but habitat fragmentation from too many trails per unit area. In the long run if this damage keeps bikes off it, eventually they can plant stuff or plants will grow and it won’t be a trail anymore. The idea is they want the trail gone, not sustainable.
DangerDirtyD
iMTB Hooligan
Cholla will send the message.
sir crashalot
iMTB Rockstah
Not really, and they don’t have enough dead cactus to cover all the unauthorized trails
sir crashalot
iMTB Rockstah
On another note, looks like the work on 5 oaks is done according to website, anyone check it out yet?
shawndoh
Well-Known Member
Rode it 2x today. There are 2 corners that are kinda head scratching, 1 may get better as it packs down. Overall my impression is that nothing they did is ride enhancing, but luckily they didn't sanitize any of the chunky character sections.
tbarnesarc
Well-Known Member
Two main factors are what caused PG's destruction:
1.) The uptick in illegal trail building as of late, i.e. bringing drunken sailor back and a new illegal trail called Quarantine that was being built. Both horrible ideas from my perspective. Drunken Sailor really pissed off the land managers as I suspected due to that trail along with MC were to go away so lizards could become legal. It was part of the agreement from my understanding after talking to a friend that knew the story about how lizards became legal. I think that story is pretty common knowledge though.
2.) That blasphemous article in the Laguna Beach Indy where that uninformed and ignorant Tex Haines (owner of Victoria Skimboards) was complaining about trail maintenance on Telonics. He has also bitched about PG over the years as well. And yes I can call Tex those names as I know him as I was a former competitive skimmer. He also supposedly complained to OC parks that guys were redoing PG which isn't true. There was a minor extra credit line added that needed very little work to be done on it from my understanding. Still not a good idea these days regardless.
I have also heard that Art School is next on the chopping block(not surprising). Crews were supposedly staged by it yesterday. I have yet to see this with my own eyes though.
The concerning part is what happens next within the MTB community. I see it going two possible ways. The first is these trails being destroyed is a wake up call, everyone chills out and lets this pass which prevents it from escalating further. The second, which is really worrisome. Some in the MTB community give the land managers an FU and start to build a new trail for every trail that is destroyed by them. What happens after that is the land managers go "oh ya? MTB is banned in Aliso and LCWP now." Hopefully the first option is what plays out but optimism about it is hard at this juncture.
Last edited:
sir crashalot
iMTB Rockstah
I think they mostly just redid the bottom bridges
tick
Well-Known Member
World events have me a little low on optimism. I’d only expect a crescendo of sanctimony followed by a mushroom cloud over Laguna. I’m pretty sure both sides would prefer a smoldering crater over common sense.
“If I can’t build a double black ebike playground on someone else’s land, then I’m taking my access and going home.”
“better to rule in hell than serve in Heaven.”
shawndoh
Well-Known Member
Regarding 5-Oaks:
Hiked it down today and took some pictures. 2 turns, plus the whole portion- past the stairs/tree roots is effected.
The first turn, right above where the pavers were, is now a hard- nearly 180° turn. Real kink in the trail.
Next is the old stairs, at the bottom. It's very silty right now. If it packs down and is made into a bit of a berm, might be pretty rad.
Hiked it down today and took some pictures. 2 turns, plus the whole portion- past the stairs/tree roots is effected.
The first turn, right above where the pavers were, is now a hard- nearly 180° turn. Real kink in the trail.
Next is the old stairs, at the bottom. It's very silty right now. If it packs down and is made into a bit of a berm, might be pretty rad.
Last edited:
kdiff
Member
Regarding this topic, I got invited to a meeting that a concerned mtbr had requested. There are a number of contributing factors that led to PG's destruction. herzalot's and tbarnesarc's assessments are pretty accurate. There was some flagrant trail work being done on PG and OC Parks can't ignore that. In addition, the resurrection of retired off the menu trails and cutting of new ones also couldn't be ignored. Social media + the COVID (stay at home order) compounded all of this. OC Parks is in a tough spot as they are the stewards of the land and responsible for enforcing the rules/laws. This was my first time meeting most of these people and I thought it was a good conversation despite the differing opinions. I don't want to post much more than that about it on here, we can talk in person if there's something specific.
Last edited:
sir crashalot
iMTB Rockstah
Rode it yesterday. Yeah that first sharp loose turn is real awkward. At the bottom, rerouting it to the right of the tree so another curve instead of a straight shot...real loose now but will be a good line if ever packs down (November??). Not complaining, glad to be out riding!
Nice bridges
mike
iMTB Hooligan
Boohoo, illegal trail got some real pushback. WTF did you poach-happy "locals" expect? Well earned and surprisingly overdue.
sir crashalot
iMTB Rockstah
We’re not all poach-happy
mike
iMTB Hooligan
I know that’s true, and to clarify, I’m addressing only the locals that that attribute applies to. Not trying to insinuate that anyone in particular is part of that subgroup. Ride on, G.
herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
It's not the poach happy locals that caused this. They've kept everything on the DL and have maintained an uneasy truce with rangers for 20 years. It's the sudden surge in riders and poach happy non-locals (who may not even know they're poaching), riding in huge groups and posting on social media that forced the hands of the Rangers and land managers. And although I have ridden a number (5?) of the hidden gems, I have only ridden them once. (Well except the one named for a pie restaurant - and not after Lizard opened).
tick
Well-Known Member
Gotta say though, all this “local” talk doesn’t sit well with me. The park is not the private domain of the “locals,” this isn’t the river in Deliverance.
The kids riding CRF250s up Silverado told me it’s OK because they’re locals.
herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
Missing the point. Most of the long-time locals didn't draw attention to themselves. The outsiders did. That's not localism, that's descriptive. Localism is when locals try to keep others out. Nobody has done that.
jdubb
Member
===================
Really? DS or MC aren't going anywhere even with a total elimination of users. These trails will be there and used forever. PG, if you can really handle it,....have at it! I feel that any reaction to destruction will likely not be a new trail, rather a new work around.
DangerDirtyD
iMTB Hooligan
MC is so much better than Lizards. Cant we make a trade? That used to be my 2x/week night ride when I lived in the Quail Hill area. Bommer to West Fork to MC to Camarillo to Stagecoach to Quail Trail. There are hundreds of "wildlife" camera photos of a guy in a purple long-sleeve. The night time is the right time.
mike
iMTB Hooligan
Thanks for your take on the history.
There’s nothing DL about building, maintaining and using an illegal trail in a small park like Aliso. You guys act like it’s some kind of secret backcountry stash in BFE. The idea of it is audacious and a product of overt entitlement. The so-called pillars of the community set the pace of disregard for regulations, and you get what you have now: A disfunctional relationship between that user group and the management that has potential to affect many others.
I’ll interpret “uneasy truce” as Parks not having/allocating the budget and personnel to effectively prioritize illegal trails.
Blaming outsider mobs is a typical locals reaction. Everyone who’s ridden and talked about the “DL” trails is to blame for pushing the managers as far as they have been. Including those who think nothing of broadcasting info, both locals and not.