Aliso-Wood and Laguna Coast Wilderness Parks

Trail Stewardship Day Saturday Feb. 23, 2019. Canyon View Park staging area. Working on Rock-It (not sure what or why). There has been some talk in the past about making the end of the trail a little more interesting and less direct, but who knows?

I am guessing Rock-It is the trail LEAST in need of tuning up after the rains, but I've given up trying to figure out what the lead digger at LCF is doing and how priorities are established. I will join in mostly to have access to the decision makers and plant some seeds of other priorities, and advocate for mt. bike related adjustments rather than the anti-bike contouring that is becoming the norm in OC parks.

Click Here to sign up.
 
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herzalot said:
it looks to me like the tree was either brought there or left there intentionally by someone doing trail work. There were many fresh chainsaw cuts on surrounding trees - fresh enough that sawdust was still visible. So whoever was cutting up trees in that area either decided to alter the route by dragging a tree into the ditch or, if it had fallen there naturally, chose to leave it blocking the trail rather than to cut it up. The route through the ditch was an endorsed route, based on the pavers that LCF had installed a year or two ago (see photo).
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I missed this note when it was first posted up. You're lucky you weren't hurt (more). Without a clean line, that bridge goes from being a nice trail feature to a hazard. I honestly wonder how many people doing "trail work" even ride mountain bikes. Some of the work I have seen on trails would not have been done by even the most junior rider.

Last time Motorway had major work done (before they reopened it after the last fire) some idiots went through and dug water bars so big they were actually worse than the trail damage they were designed to prevent. Better yet - several of the water bars were paved/lined on the top with grapefruit-sized rocks embedded in the dirt. WTF? Someone went far out of their way to install trail features that were both ineffective and dangerous.

Sometimes I think it might be volunteers who are hikers and just don't know any better. But other times I have to assume the people are completely ignorant of what they are doing - and no one with a clue is supervising their work.
 
BonsaiNut said:
Last time Motorway had major work done (before they reopened it after the last fire) some idiots went through and dug water bars so big they were actually worse than the trail damage they were designed to prevent. Better yet - several of the water bars were paved/lined on the top with grapefruit-sized rocks embedded in the dirt. WTF? Someone went far out of their way to install trail features that were both ineffective and dangerous.

Sometimes I think it might be volunteers who are hikers and just don't know any better. But other times I have to assume the people are completely ignorant of what they are doing - and no one with a clue is supervising their work.
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Actually that was the Conservation Corps. that did the work on the Motorway. So established trailworkers....but I agree, it was badly done.
 
herzalot said:
Trail Stewardship Day Saturday Feb. 23, 2019. Canyon View Park staging area. Working on Rock-It (not sure what). There has been some talk in the past about making the end of the trail a little more interesting and less direct, but who knows?

I am guessing Rock-It is the trail LEAST in need of tuning up after the rains, but I've given up trying to figure out what the lead digger at LCF is doing and how priorities are established. I will join in mostly to have access to the decision makers and plant some seeds of other priorities, and advocate for mt. bike related adjustments rather than the anti-bike contouring that is becoming the norm in OC parks.

Click Here to sign up.
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All signed up and looking forward to it. Thanks for link @herzalot
 
Just checked ocparks. Looks like Aliso is open, but Canyon Acres, Mathis, and Car Wreck are closed due to storm damage and maintenance.
 
Josh Donovan said:
So rant aside, what can we as a demographic do?
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Thanks for chiming in.

What can we do? Attend every single trail-related meeting held by OC Parks and Laguna Canyon Foundation. And as a group, we need to rein in other riders who are oblivious to or blatantly disregard basic trail etiquette and present themselves as dangerous, rowdy, rude and entitled to other trail users.
 
herzalot said:
Thanks for chiming in.

What can we do? Attend every single trail-related meeting held by OC Parks and Laguna Canyon Foundation. And as a group, we need to rein in other riders who are oblivious to or blatantly disregard basic trail etiquette and present themselves as dangerous, rowdy, rude and entitled to other trail users.
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Josh was a Russian spammer. He's been neutralized by He Who Wields the Hammer. @Mikie :thumbsup:

Kinda scary, though... He actually made a few posts that were on target. A new breed of scammer.
 
FizzyCola said:
Crazy how a potentially new 2' wide single track trail can disrupt "sensitive habitat" way more than miles worth of toll roads through the same areas.
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You know it!

I remember the "Irvine Open Space - Wild Forever" signs that used to stand where the Crystal Cove shopping center and McMansions are now.

But it's totally worth it to get a Trader Joe's in there!
 
I rode Bommer and LCWP last night.... It's in rough shape. The stuff I saw in El Moro was equally as bad if not worse. Lots of rain ruts everywhere. The switch back climb on Stagecoach by the 73 has a big rut on a lot of it. There's a few sections I had to get off that I think MAY be rideable with enough momentum and line choice.

Fenceline was in great shape overall. Shows how good drainage and trail building go a long way. All of the fire roads are beat up (much like you saw in Whiting).

I don't think there's anything too major, and like how things are not perfect, but I have to say I was a bit surprised they were open given this litigious society we live in!
 
I rode my "regular quail loop", and same of the vanilla fire roads definitely have some additional character to them.
I was riding my SS (first time in a long time), and I never felt the need to get off my bike. It looks to me that much of the trail damage was caused by heavy equipment.
I went up West Fork, Bommer, Lizards, Loural, Serrano, and cattle Crest. All ridable condition.

w2ChNU6p_5U-AXNMH4yg_QESWY-iVMzrnXN8mXbw8HI-1536x2048.jpg

I found a few flowers and a billion butterflies (not pictured). Nature wow!
 
FYI, OCFA was dozing/scraping all the fire roads in Aliso today. Westridge up to TOW, Mathis and top portion of Rockit. Seems early but I guess just cleaning them up so they can get their equipment in there in case of fire or emergency. It doesn't bother me, just traverses to the fun stuff, except the soft dirt for a couple weeks.
 
knucklebuster said:
FYI, OCFA was dozing/scraping all the fire roads in Aliso today. Westridge up to TOW, Mathis and top portion of Rockit. Seems early but I guess just cleaning them up so they can get their equipment in there in case of fire or emergency. It doesn't bother me, just traverses to the fun stuff, except the soft dirt for a couple weeks.
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Will be going on all week, I believe.
 
** will repost in a second, i'm having trouble with my posts not posting and then when they do it's not correct
 
This thread was an interesting read.

Did I understand correctly that Aliso/Laguna doesn't have much presence from a local mtb group vs other OC parks (e.g. SHARE at Oaks and Whiting)? If yes, why is it ignored vs the other parks?

Also, I'm doing a trail day with LCF this Saturday. Are there any questions that you would recommend I ask in order to become better educated on Aliso/Laguna and/or general education?
 
kdiff said:
This thread was an interesting read.

Did I understand correctly that Aliso/Laguna doesn't have much presence from a local mtb group vs other OC parks (e.g. SHARE at Oaks and Whiting)? If yes, why is it ignored vs the other parks?

Also, I'm doing a trail day with LCF this Saturday. Are there any questions that you would recommend I ask in order to become better educated on Aliso/Laguna and/or general education?
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Hard to explain. Even harder to understand.

First - LCF is not a mountain bike coalition. They are a charged with managing and balancing recreation, protection and restoration of the area. They have to try to please hikers, joggers, bikers and the rare equestrian. Trail work is directed by a guy who seems inclined to slow bikes down as much as possible by making awkward humps and turns (i.e. the recent work on the top of Camarillo). He continuously claims his goal is to "keep water off the trails and the riders on..." but judging by the countless exits from the trail, he is not keeping riders on the trail through any kind of flow, and as for keeping water off, well, let's just say @kioti's work on Meadows and The Luge is far superior in that regard as well. There is a propensity for LCF to want to dumb down trails as well, in the name of sustainability. Luckily, they haven't done any real dumbing down to Lizard or the older part of Camarillo. I keep my fingers crossed that they do not dumb down 5-Oaks, Car Wreck or Stair Steps. Bottom line for me is the guy works hard, but he is hard to work with, and doesn't seem to understand modern mt. biking.

From what I've seen of SHARE's work, I'm not convinced they are a great match for Aliso or LCWP.

Then there's the OG trailbuilders in Laguna. They ride whatever the hell they want, because they built the "off menu" trails 30 years ago and still maintain them, and they will be damned if anyone is going to keep them from riding said trails. Unfortunately, their once-secret awesome trails have now been well publicized on social media, so everybody with a computer and a nice bike has to ride those particular trails and then boast about it very publicly. The massive increase in traffic on these trails in the last three years has forced rangers to take action about riding illegal trails (where they could pretty much just ignore it in the past).

But all of that has already been said in this thread. Would a mtb specific coalition for advocacy and trail maintenance be helpful in Laguna? Not sure. I am pretty sure they would be overruled by LCF and OC Parks. That said, it's very important that (non-motorized) MtB voices are heard at EVERY opportunity.
 
herzalot said:
Hard to explain. Even harder to understand.

First - LCF is not a mountain bike coalition. They are a charged with managing and balancing recreation, protection and restoration of the area. They have to try to please hikers, joggers, bikers and the rare equestrian. Trail work is directed by a guy who seems inclined to slow bikes down as much as possible by making awkward humps and turns (i.e. the recent work on the top of Camarillo). He continuously claims his goal is to "keep water off the trails and the riders on..." but judging by the countless exits from the trail, he is not keeping riders on the trail through any kind of flow, and as for keeping water off, well, let's just say @kioti's work on Meadows and The Luge is far superior in that regard as well. There is a propensity for LCF to want to dumb down trails as well, in the name of sustainability. Luckily, they haven't done any real dumbing down to Lizard or the older part of Camarillo. I keep my fingers crossed that they do not dumb down 5-Oaks, Car Wreck or Stair Steps. Bottom line for me is the guy works hard, but he is hard to work with, and doesn't seem to understand modern mt. biking.

From what I've seen of SHARE's work, I'm not convinced they are a great match for Aliso or LCWP.

Then there's the OG trailbuilders in Laguna. They ride whatever the hell they want, because they built the "off menu" trails 30 years ago and still maintain them, and they will be damned if anyone is going to keep them from riding said trails. Unfortunately, their once-secret awesome trails have now been well publicized on social media, so everybody with a computer and a nice bike has to ride those particular trails and then boast about it very publicly. The massive increase in traffic on these trails in the last three years has forced rangers to take action about riding illegal trails (where they could pretty much just ignore it in the past).

But all of that has already been said in this thread. Would a mtb specific coalition for advocacy and trail maintenance be helpful in Laguna? Not sure. I am pretty sure they would be overruled by LCF and OC Parks. That said, it's very important that (non-motorized) MtB voices are heard at EVERY opportunity.
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Thank you for that. That gives some clarity into your question in my intro and some insight into some things I’ve wondered about with LCF as I get more exposure. (In retrospect I may have answered it slightly differently.)

Am I wasting my time volunteering? I’m wondering if my time would be better spent at looking for career opportunities in an area where biking isn’t last in line. At times I’m very bothered that all types of trail users in SoCal don’t make a more significant effort in trail maintenance.
 
kdiff said:
Thank you for that. That gives some clarity into your question in my intro and some insight into some things I’ve wondered about with LCF as I get more exposure. (In retrospect I may have answered it slightly differently.)

Am I wasting my time volunteering? I’m wondering if my time would be better spent at looking for career opportunities in an area where biking isn’t last in line. At times I’m very bothered that all types of trail users in SoCal don’t make a more significant effort in trail maintenance.
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You are not wasting your time volunteering. Thank you for doing so. There are times working with LCF that I just could not do what I was directed to do (like build a hump in a dumb location, or cut a drain in a dangerous spot), so I just did something else - shaved braking bumps, reinforced a berm, cleaned out an existing drain, etc.
 
herzalot said:
...Bottom line for me is the guy works hard, but he is hard to work with, and doesn't seem to understand modern mt. biking.
....
But all of that has already been said in this thread. Would a mtb specific coalition for advocacy and trail maintenance be helpful in Laguna? Not sure. I am pretty sure they would be overruled by LCF and OC Parks. That said, it's very important that (non-motorized) MtB voices are heard at EVERY opportunity.
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herzalot said:
There are times working with LCF that I just could not do what I was directed to do (like build a hump in a dumb location, or cut a drain in a dangerous spot), so I just did something else - shaved braking bumps, reinforced a berm, cleaned out an existing drain, etc.
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I get what you’re saying and regarding the drainage, I’ve seen it, but I can say as I and a couple others have had more time with LCF we’ve been able to tailor some of the drainage so it’s not as much of a hindrance. One or two maybe a slight positive change rather than a negative or neutral change. We are asked for our input on how a rider would handle some of these items. My thought is if we, mtb’rs, would consistently volunteer in a large number (e.g. 15+) then we would have a lot more power in the Aliso/Laguna trails and in the OC Parks. Now that the freshness of the LCF town hall has worn off, there have only been 2-3 volunteers that are mountain bikers. This is a pretty sad turnout.

LCF’s town hall seemed like a gesture of reaching out and to me the message was clear: we need volunteers and we are asking the mtb community to participate. My impression of the audience was one of pretentiousness and arrogance. At least from many that were speaking out. (I can provide some examples if you would like.) In addition the audience wanted promises of more trails even though they aren’t willing to maintain what we have. It was an immature and shortsighted response on the part of the mtb’rs there.

Neither side is perfect but at some point we all need to try and work together or this whole poaching then crackdown circle is going to just repeat itself over and over. I see what they have in Issaquah, Santa Cruz, etc and I would love to have that here. To be clear I don’t expect that to happen in Aliso but I think it’s possible in OC if the community would step up. Perhaps I’m naively optimistic?
 
kdiff said:
I get what you’re saying and regarding the drainage, I’ve seen it, but I can say as I and a couple others have had more time with LCF we’ve been able to tailor some of the drainage so it’s not as much of a hindrance. One or two maybe a slight positive change rather than a negative or neutral change. We are asked for our input on how a rider would handle some of these items. My thought is if we, mtb’rs, would consistently volunteer in a large number (e.g. 15+) then we would have a lot more power in the Aliso/Laguna trails and in the OC Parks. Now that the freshness of the LCF town hall has worn off, there have only been 2-3 volunteers that are mountain bikers. This is a pretty sad turnout.

LCF’s town hall seemed like a gesture of reaching out and to me the message was clear: we need volunteers and we are asking the mtb community to participate. My impression of the audience was one of pretentiousness and arrogance. At least from many that were speaking out. (I can provide some examples if you would like.) In addition the audience wanted promises of more trails even though they aren’t willing to maintain what we have. It was an immature and shortsighted response on the part of the mtb’rs there.

Neither side is perfect but at some point we all need to try and work together or this whole poaching then crackdown circle is going to just repeat itself over and over. I see what they have in Issaquah, Santa Cruz, etc and I would love to have that here. To be clear I don’t expect that to happen in Aliso but I think it’s possible in OC if the community would step up. Perhaps I’m naively optimistic?
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I am hopelessly optimistic too, with a modicum of current reality thrown in. I speak with Hallie Jones (LCF) on a fairly regular basis and appreciate the balancing act she is expected to maintain.

LCF caps the volunteer work crews at about 10. I signed up for four trail work days after the Town Hall (and had done several prior). All of them were cancelled because it had rained - the BEST time to do the trailwork. LCF claims it was OC Parks who wouldn't let the work commence.

Many MtBers at the meeting last fall suggested having a "go team" at the ready, to respond right after a rain. That didn't happen. As you know, planning a trailwork day months in advance relegates the work to brush and drains, and no tread work. Or at least, there shouldn't be any tread work when it's dry.

So my question is this, why are the riders not volunteering to do the trailwork? Is it because of frequent cancellations? Capping participation? Working with a guy who is tough to work with? Frustration with the style of trail improvements? Seeing no point in doing trailwork when it's dry? Or are they just selfish and want others to do the work? I truly don't know.

Thank you for your dedication to local trail advocacy. I will keep pushing the rock up the hill as well.
 
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