The Automobile Thread

Danimal said:
My apologies if I came across as augmentative, that is not my intention.
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I didn't take it that way at all. Just talking about cars.

I honestly think when it comes to EV's there is Tesla and then there is everyone else. (Tesla has an 75%+ share of the EV market in the US in terms of unit sales, and a higher percentage in terms of $$$). The Tesla model 3 was the most sold EV in the WORLD in 2018. Everyone else is trying to make EV's "work" in their traditional car model. Tesla is the only one to completely rethink the entire experience - from no negotiation pricing, no dealerships, no commissioned salespeople, direct delivery, direct service, etc. The whole Tesla experience is so simple and stress-free it just shows how BAD the traditional car buying model really is. Right now Tesla revenues are growing 80% per year, so who knows where they might be in a decade?

Tesla isn't perfect. Their car interiors are not, in my opinion, nearly as nice as other cars in their peer group.
 
BonsaiNut said:
I didn't take it that way at all. Just talking about cars.

I honestly think when it comes to EV's there is Tesla and then there is everyone else. (Tesla has an 75%+ share of the EV market in the US in terms of unit sales, and a higher percentage in terms of $$$). The Tesla model 3 was the most sold EV in the WORLD in 2018. Everyone else is trying to make EV's "work" in their traditional car model. Tesla is the only one to completely rethink the entire experience - from no negotiation pricing, no dealerships, no commissioned salespeople, direct delivery, direct service, etc. The whole Tesla experience is so simple and stress-free it just shows how BAD the traditional car buying model really is. Right now Tesla revenues are growing 80% per year, so who knows where they might be in a decade?

Tesla isn't perfect. Their car interiors are not, in my opinion, nearly as nice as other cars in their peer group.
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The only thing I have against them is their proprietary charging network. That really pisses me off at some primal level.
 
Cyclotourist said:
The only thing I have against them is their proprietary charging network. That really pisses me off at some primal level.
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So you're implying that tesla isn't compatible with other charging stations?
This strikes me as a problem.

I'd think in order for EVs to be accepted universally that the charging would have to be standardized across all platforms, like gas pumps work on all cars, electric plugs are all the same in the US.
 
Danimal said:
So you're implying that tesla isn't compatible with other charging stations?
This strikes me as a problem.

I'd think in order for EVs to be accepted universally that the charging would have to be standardized across all platforms, like gas pumps work on all cars, electric plugs are all the same in the US.
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Yeah, rising tide lifts all boats, and stuff. That's where we need to be at this stage of the game.
 
Danimal said:
So you're implying that tesla isn't compatible with other charging stations?
This strikes me as a problem.

I'd think in order for EVs to be accepted universally that the charging would have to be standardized across all platforms, like gas pumps work on all cars, electric plugs are all the same in the US.
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Correct me if I'm wrong @BonsaiNut , but Teslas can charge anywhere with an adapter, but nobody else can use their proprietary stations. This frustrates me to no end as I feel EVs should be standardized in order to make it more convenient for universal implementation.

Stupid Betamax...
 
Cyclotourist said:
Correct me if I'm wrong @BonsaiNut , but Teslas can charge anywhere with an adapter, but nobody else can use their proprietary stations. This frustrates me to no end as I feel EVs should be standardized in order to make it more convenient for universal implementation.

Stupid Betamax...
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That's the way it is today, because Tesla had to create their national infrastructure almost before they could sell a single car. I don't know how much of their business model it is... and I wonder if they are losing money on them. The whole "free lifetime charging" is a program that they initially offered for free with all model S's, then it became a premium add-on, and now it is a special promotion. The problem they are having is that a small percentage of owners are using the charging stations daily, and clogging them up for the people who are trying to charge as they pass through. The busiest super-charger in the country is the one in San Juan Capistrano. When we drive down to San Juan Cap, there is rarely an open charging station. However in Cabazon there are ALWAYS numerous chargers free, because it is located out in the desert where no one lives, and therefore it isn't practical for people to use it daily. For the most part, people now get about 1000 miles of free charging per year, after which they have to pay a small fee. You also can't use it for commercial, ride-sharing, taxi, government use, etc.

They are supposedly building a new super-charging station in Mission Viejo across from the library.

Initially the idea was that the super-chargers themselves were going to generate all their electricity via solar panels, but I have no idea how much of that has been realized. Our solar panels (on our house) are from Solar City (Tesla's solar panel subsidiary), but we had them installed before we ever considered buying an EV. Just makes too much financial sense if you live in SoCal. We have a 220v line in our garage for our Tesla... but we don't have a "super charger" (which I believe has 2x the amps). We have never had a need.
 
Derkderkall said:
My wife and I were admiring Chevy Colorado's the other day, and led to talking about e pickups. With the lagging of the big 3 truck companies, the market is wide open for new players to dominate..
https://evbite.com/5-upcoming-electric-trucks/
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Their next three vehicles (scheduled to launch next year) are the Model Y, the Semi, and the Roadster 2. The model Y is a sedan/SUV crossover (what those of us from the 1980's refer to as a hatchback) and the Semi is... well, a semi :) The Roadster 2 is going to be their upgraded version of the Roadster... and hela expensive with a range of 620 miles and a 0-60 acceleration time of 1.9 seconds (!)

They released a "teaser" partial image of their pickup (in development) but it was nothing more than a couple of body lines...

FWIW... Elon Musk says the new pickup will out-perform a Porsche 911 :) Of course, if you don't want to wait, you can always build you own :)


(Tesla Y and Roadster 2)

tesla.jpg
 
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BonsaiNut said:
Their next three vehicles (scheduled to launch next year) are the Model Y, the Semi, and the Roadster 2. The model Y is a sedan/SUV crossover (what those of us from the 1980's refer to as a hatchback) and the Semi is... well, a semi :) The Roadster 2 is going to be their upgraded version of the Roadster... and hela expensive with a range of 620 miles and a 0-60 acceleration time of 1.9 seconds (!)

They released a "teaser" partial image of their pickup (in development) but it was nothing more than a couple of body lines...

FWIW... Elon Musk says the new pickup will out-perform a Porsche 911 :) Of course, if you don't want to wait, you can always build you own :)


(Tesla Y and Roadster 2)

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If I'm not mistaken UPS has already reserved 125 of their semis. I'm anxious to see the range on those.
 
Cyclotourist said:
Rivian is supposedly doing the truck thing right: https://www.trucks.com/2019/08/21/rivian-closer-to-electric-truck-production/

They are partially owned/partnered with FoMoCo. I (Along with many others) predict an BEV F150 in the not-so distant future.
Any thoughts on that @Lost Kiwi

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As I said, don’t buy an EV yet...they’re gonna get better every year. The frame rails of the new full size GM trucks were designed to let the battery pack drop in once the supply and demand curves meet in a profitable place. Battery prices are 1/5 of where they were when the model S was released. I’m reading that another 50% drop is expected in the next few years as volumes rise, probably enough to make the technology mainstream.
 
BEAFB8C4-11DE-4C90-83AA-7FFBA0584DC8.png
Some of you know Rick from the club ride in Big Bear and last year’s Wrightwood ride. He lurks on the forum. He fabricates projects in his backyard shop.
He built up this early 70s Opel Manta to use on the track at Willow Springs Raceway. Under the Manta body is a Nissan 240sx (if I remember right). Power is supplied by a LS3 motor. He did extensive work to meld everything together.
 
Since we're deep diving into EVs here, I guess I have news. As @herzalot suspected, we just pulled the trigger on an e-Tron. Took delivery yesterday. I genuinely feel pretty conspicuous driving around in (and sharing about) a car that had the window sticker that this car did, but after generous discounts from the dealer, Audi incentives, and fed and state rebates & credits, we effectively got it for around 23% below sticker. That doesn't even factor in the conservative gas savings of between $3K - $4K per year compared to the car that I'm replacing, or reduced maintenance costs. I'm sure there will be some bumps along the way, and the sheer amount of gadgetry and gizmos that can malfunction does give me some pause. As a long term car enthusiast, this car is really the polar opposite of what has generally turned me on when it comes to cars, but I am just beyond impressed and excited about it so far.
zJyol49.jpg
 
That looks like the perfect Hot Wheel.

I once met someone w/ an entire room dedicated to 1000s of Hot Wheels, most in sealed packaging. He showed me some truly limited edition collector cars, as the "good" ones are first pressings with a new mold that will only punch out so many before the mold is worn and used for normal production cars.
 
siata94 said:
That looks like the perfect Hot Wheel.

I once met someone w/ an entire room dedicated to 1000s of Hot Wheels, most in sealed packaging. He showed me some truly limited edition collector cars, as the "good" ones are first pressings with a new mold that will only punch out so many before the mold is worn and used for normal production cars.
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Rick is pretty stoked and I don’t blame him. He gets an all expenses paid trip to SEMA too.
 
And, pouring out a sip for this one. This was my first "nice" car, and I have poured a ton of energy and resources into it in terms of modifications (and problems encountered as a result). Moving it out of the garage, and onto the street was hard. It sits there now awaiting the appointment for the long task of returning everything to stock to get ready to sell. As much as it pains me, it will also be nice to be free from the mods vs. dealer/warranty song and dance. I do feel like I'm constantly looking over my shoulder with this one. It has also been a good lesson as to what a money pit the car mod game can be, and I think it's going to be a bit liberating to be in a car that doesn't really lend itself to that as much. Still though, for what started life as a souped up soccer mom car, it's fast, and fun as hell to drive. Also made new friends along the way with fellow enthusiasts.

YTtLDEE.jpg
 
buggravy said:
Since we're deep diving into EVs here, I guess I have news. As @herzalot suspected, we just pulled the trigger on an e-Tron. Took delivery yesterday. I genuinely feel pretty conspicuous driving around in (and sharing about) a car that had the window sticker that this car did, but after generous discounts from the dealer, Audi incentives, and fed and state rebates & credits, we effectively got it for around 23% below sticker. That doesn't even factor in the conservative gas savings of between $3K - $4K per year compared to the car that I'm replacing, or reduced maintenance costs. I'm sure there will be some bumps along the way, and the sheer amount of gadgetry and gizmos that can malfunction does give me some pause. As a long term car enthusiast, this car is really the polar opposite of what has generally turned me on when it comes to cars, but I am just beyond impressed and excited about it so far.
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Sweet car! Those Trons are exceptionally nice, Im going to have to stay away from the Audi dealer.... For the comment on gadgets...OMG all the stuff they put in cars now is distracting and so over the top. A learning curve of a few weeks of not months...

I flipped between the blue one you posted and this, they look remarkably similar and kinda hard to tell apart....although I'm sure that's just in the pic.
Congrats!
 
Danimal said:
Sweet car! Those Trons are exceptionally nice, Im going to have to stay away from the Audi dealer.... For the comment on gadgets...OMG all the stuff they put in cars now is distracting and so over the top. A learning curve of a few weeks of not months...

I flipped between the blue one you posted and this, they look remarkably similar and kinda hard to tell apart....although I'm sure that's just in the pic.
Congrats!
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Thanks! And they're a similar shape, but pretty different dimensions. The e-Tron is about 6 inches longer, and substantially more portly. Almost 1,400 lbs more in fact. With the air suspension dropped all the way it looks a little more wagony than SUV.
 
With regards to EV's, for many people it's just not in the budget. Even if you have solar, the cost of solar and the break even is at least 8 yrs or more by some of the estimates I've read. Of course the tech and infrastructure will eventually improve but the limited range makes you have to plan more for longer distances. I remember hearing of holiday issues with people having to wait longer periods to charge.
Now I'm a pretty frugal guy and love to save where I can. I've been driving a Prius for a couple of years, 50+ mpg, very little maintainance after 135K miles. Our electricity bill is low enough that it doesn't make solar a good financial decision.
 
buggravy said:
Since we're deep diving into EVs here, I guess I have news. As @herzalot suspected, we just pulled the trigger on an e-Tron. Took delivery yesterday. I genuinely feel pretty conspicuous driving around in (and sharing about) a car that had the window sticker that this car did, but after generous discounts from the dealer, Audi incentives, and fed and state rebates & credits, we effectively got it for around 23% below sticker. That doesn't even factor in the conservative gas savings of between $3K - $4K per year compared to the car that I'm replacing, or reduced maintenance costs. I'm sure there will be some bumps along the way, and the sheer amount of gadgetry and gizmos that can malfunction does give me some pause. As a long term car enthusiast, this car is really the polar opposite of what has generally turned me on when it comes to cars, but I am just beyond impressed and excited about it so far.
View attachment 58921
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When VW and Audi decided to go Electric, I've had several VW's with electrical nuisance issues that can drive (pun intended) one crazy , hassles etc. So let us know how the E thing works for VW/Audi.
 
scan said:
With regards to EV's, for many people it's just not in the budget. Even if you have solar, the cost of solar and the break even is at least 8 yrs or more by some of the estimates I've read. Of course the tech and infrastructure will eventually improve but the limited range makes you have to plan more for longer distances. I remember hearing of holiday issues with people having to wait longer periods to charge.
Now I'm a pretty frugal guy and love to save where I can. I've been driving a Prius for a couple of years, 50+ mpg, very little maintenance after 135K miles. Our electricity bill is low enough that it doesn't make solar a good financial decision.
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But... you drive a Prius... :gotnothing:
 
scan said:
With regards to EV's, for many people it's just not in the budget. Even if you have solar, the cost of solar and the break even is at least 8 yrs or more by some of the estimates I've read.
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5 years cash payback, assuming no residual value.

That was ten years ago... when electricity was cheaper. Now I am saving about $5000 per year. My house isn't even that big, though I have a pool and an EV. My average electricity bill is a little under $100 per month all year. December is expensive, and June I usually pay nothing.
 
Solar power on my roof will never make sense for me.

My utilities are electricity, water, sewer and trash on one bill, every other month. My last bill, after running the AC almost continuously for a month, was $510 on a three-bedroom, 1,800 square foot single family house. For everything. Electricity for August to October was $300, and that's the highest for the year. My average two-month utilities are $350 for everything. It would take more years than I have left to make it pencil out.

EDIT: The actual electricity cost (for TWO months) was less, without the BS add-ons:
upload_2019-10-22_20-46-18.png


An electric vehicle would be even worse.
 
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