Snow Sports and/or Surfing

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view from the top at Snowmass today. Some drama, some elation is just about right.
 
herzalot said:
Well - at $18,000, there will only be a few wealthy, lazy douchebags who dare take these in the water. I feel a little sorry for the first asshat who brings one of those into an actual surf lineup. He will get beaten to a pulp by actual surfers.
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I was thinking the same thing. Kind of reminds me of the Mammoth Black Pass that was introduced a few years ago. $10K per person season pass, but purchasers skipped to the very front of the lift line, including opening bell on powder days. I never actually witnessed it, but heard that lift line hazing was brutal, and that people went out of their way to snake lines and fully roost pass holders trying to make runs. They also had front row parking spots that were clearly labeled, and right in the path of foot traffic. The G-Wagons and Range Rovers always just looked like sitting ducks.
 
herzalot said:
Probably headed for a few runs at Mt. High tomorrow with the wee lass. :thumbsup:
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I’m scared to go near big bear this weekend—ikon pass is blacked out for mammoth but not for summit. If the orthopedist doesn’t yell at me on Wednesday, I’ll try to go next week.

I’m wondering how long before one of the local independent ski hills gets sucked up by the Epic Pass...

I’m digging the pass wars. When it’s all over, lowering the average cost per day ought to be good for the industry. The ski town “locals” with their panties in a wad can get over themselves and start appreciating the extra tips at their busboy jobs.
 
Derkderkall said:
I lived in relatively flat land most of my life. Short snowboard runs down 50 foot hills and cross country skiing.

Would like to get started heading up to the ski hills, probably next season. Want my kids to grow up with that opportunity..
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We took the kids to Summit one day a year starting when they were 3 or 4. Lessons in the morning and skiing together after lunch. Worked up to a couple easy warm days of spring skiing at Mammoth in elementary school.

Locally, the best time for kids is warm weekends like this, early December before the first big snow, and the tail end of the season. The warm weather sends the crowds to the beach and keeps the kids comfortable. The bunny slopes are among the first to get the man made snow. Of course if you home-school, take the kids midweek and call it a science lesson...
 
For the record, the lesson at Snow Summit was a Sh!t experience for my daughter in 2015. Felt like she was learning in a condo complex parking lot. Too may students, no room to move. She didn't ski more than 75 yards in the first 90 minutes of a half-day lesson. Compared to her first ski lesson at Ski Cooper in CO with a long wide open slope, and a young, enthusiastic instructor.

I put her in lessons 3 or 4 times at Mt High and that was great for her. Just another reason it's not worth the drive to Snow Summit or Bear. Heading to MH tomorrow.

Oh - and I agree about the weather. If you can teach kids when it's not bitter cold and/or flat light, they have a much better chance at falling in love with the sport.
 
herzalot said:
For the record, the lesson at Snow Summit was a Sh!t experience for my daughter in 2015. Felt like she was learning in a condo complex parking lot. Too may students, no room to move. She didn't ski more than 75 yards in the first 90 minutes of a half-day lesson. Compared to her first ski lesson at Ski Cooper in CO with a long wide open slope, and a young, enthusiastic instructor.

I put her in lessons 3 or 4 times at Mt High and that was great for her. Just another reason it's not worth the drive to Snow Summit or Bear. Heading to MH tomorrow.

Oh - and I agree about the weather. If you can teach kids when it's not bitter cold and/or flat light, they have a much better chance at falling in love with the sport.
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Good to know, our kids haven’t done lessons since about 2012, and the crowds at Summit do keep increasing, so I’m not surprised.

If I was CEO of Alterra, my highest priority would be to make Summit (and places like it) as awesome as possible. Vail bought little hills all over the Midwest with the goal of capturing the kids, and funneling the parents to their western resorts for the big annual trip.
 
herzalot said:
For the record, the lesson at Snow Summit was a Sh!t experience for my daughter in 2015. Felt like she was learning in a condo complex parking lot. Too may students, no room to move. She didn't ski more than 75 yards in the first 90 minutes of a half-day lesson. Compared to her first ski lesson at Ski Cooper in CO with a long wide open slope, and a young, enthusiastic instructor.

I put her in lessons 3 or 4 times at Mt High and that was great for her. Just another reason it's not worth the drive to Snow Summit or Bear. Heading to MH tomorrow.

Oh - and I agree about the weather. If you can teach kids when it's not bitter cold and/or flat light, they have a much better chance at falling in love with the sport.
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I LOVE Cooper. Mellow terrain, but we also has a great lesson experience there, and I just love the vibe. June reminds me of Cooper a bit.
 
tick said:
I’m digging the pass wars. When it’s all over, lowering the average cost per day ought to be good for the industry. The ski town “locals” with their panties in a wad can get over themselves and start appreciating the extra tips at their busboy jobs.
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I mostly dig them as well, though I hope enough players emerge in the multi-resort ownership game to keep some competition up. While the pass value itself is going up, it sure seems like some are gouging extra hard in the ancillary costs. Vail Resorts seem to be the most flagrant offenders. We went to Park City with another family a couple years ago (despite the fact that I'm not a fan of pre-planned destination snow vacations). We got a private lesson for the rugrat one of the days, and it cost $900. Nine. Hundred. F#@kmeinthegoata$$ Earth dollars. That one day kid's lesson was basically the cost of an Epic Pass. My brother-in-law, who lives outside of Vail, said Vail itself is charging $50 per day for parking now. Don't even get me started on $20 pizza slices. I hope Alterra makes good on their pledge to keep and/or build upon the unique character of each resort they own, as opposed to Vail's homogenized approach. I think they're doing a good job with Mammoth and June so far. Will be interesting to see where things go over the next few years. I just saw a headline the other day that some resort (I thought it was Crystal, but can't recall for sure) will cease selling lift tickets next year, and will go strictly to season passes.
 
buggravy said:
I mostly dig them as well, though I hope enough players emerge in the multi-resort ownership game to keep some competition up. While the pass value itself is going up, it sure seems like some are gouging extra hard in the ancillary costs. Vail Resorts seem to be the most flagrant offenders. We went to Park City with another family a couple years ago (despite the fact that I'm not a fan of pre-planned destination snow vacations). We got a private lesson for the rugrat one of the days, and it cost $900. Nine. Hundred. F#@kmeinthegoata$$ Earth dollars. That one day kid's lesson was basically the cost of an Epic Pass. My brother-in-law, who lives outside of Vail, said Vail itself is charging $50 per day for parking now. Don't even get me started on $20 pizza slices. I hope Alterra makes good on their pledge to keep and/or build upon the unique character of each resort they own, as opposed to Vail's homogenized approach. I think they're doing a good job with Mammoth and June so far. Will be interesting to see where things go over the next few years. I just saw a headline the other day that some resort (I thought it was Crystal, but can't recall for sure) will cease selling lift tickets next year, and will go strictly to season passes.
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Passes are excellent weather insurance for the resort owner, as are multi-regional conglomerates.

The pricing reminds you that, in the end they are an amusement park business with a side hustle in real estate. Or are they a real estate developer with a side hustle in amusement parks?
 
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Mt. High with my two favorite people today - my wife, who rarely skis, and my daughter, who is learning. I was giddy with joy seeing this all day:

Ta and Rube Mt High Chair.jpg


Oh - and 95 minutes from my door to the parking lot, no charge for front row parking, no lift lines to speak of and $25 for lunch for three. 12 runs by 1:30 pm. Old school, baby!
 
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herzalot said:
Mt. High with my two favorite people today - my wife, who rarely skis, and my daughter, who is learning. I was giddy with joy seeing this all day:

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Oh - and 95 minutes from my door to the parking lot, no charge for front row parking, no lift lines to speak of and $25 for lunch for three. 12 runs by 1:30 pm. Old school, baby!
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Ahh, that’s the good stuff! Good for you Herz!
 
herzalot said:
Mt. High with my two favorite people today - my wife, who rarely skis, and my daughter, who is learning. I was giddy with joy seeing this all day:

View attachment 61312

Oh - and 95 minutes from my door to the parking lot, no charge for front row parking, no lift lines to speak of and $25 for lunch for three. 12 runs by 1:30 pm. Old school, baby!
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Nice! I’ve never been there when the East lifts were open, is that where you go? It looks like a nice run.
 
tick said:
Nice! I’ve never been there when the East lifts were open, is that where you go? It looks like a nice run.
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No - my daughter is still on green runs, so we just stayed on the lower lifts (Coyote and Roadrunner) at West. I think she is ready for the blues now. Next time we will attempt Chisholm.

East is great - long runs - 1600 vertical ft with one high-speed chairlift is "real" ski area territory. The end of the blue run at east (Goldrush) gets pretty steep and often icy, so it's too much for my daughter right now. There is a beginner lift and slopes at the top of East, but skiers/riders who can't manage blues have to download the main chair (Mt. High Express) to get back to base. Kind of an odd setup, but great views and empty green runs at the top.
 
buggravy said:
I think they're doing a good job with Mammoth and June so far.
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Intrawest sold Mammoth in exhaustion after breaking their picks without striking gold. The ski hill owns almost zero real estate. The 757s full of Texans never actually flew in. They are still sitting on a federally owned volcano...so they have to keep it as a decent place to ski, that’s all they have to offer.

Do you guys remember the ski reports back when the internet was delivered to your house by bicycle? Kratka Ridge, Green Valley, Snow Forest...places I never got to see in operation... Waterman is open this year, check it out, it makes Mt Baldy look sold-out corporate slick. I’d try hiking Kratka but the signage and broken things give me pause...
 
tick said:
Intrawest sold Mammoth in exhaustion after breaking their picks without striking gold. The ski hill owns almost zero real estate. The 757s full of Texans never actually flew in. They are still sitting on a federally owned volcano...so they have to keep it as a decent place to ski, that’s all they have to offer.
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Yeah, I should note that I started riding Mammoth right about the time that it was sold to Starwood, so I never enjoyed the Dave McCoy heyday. Despite it being a bit of a hot potato, I've never felt my customer experience was compromised (or enhanced) from one owner to the next, other than the year that they shut June down. I guess I'm just glad that it didn't get snagged by Vail, which looked like a distinct possibility at one point. I have trouble seeing any owner ever getting the air travel sorted out to the point that Mammoth will ever become the destination resort that each successive owner insists it will be, and I mostly hope they remain unsuccessful at making it that. And while I did enjoy Snow Summit a bit more before the Mammothification of it, having it included on my pass more than makes up for that. Though I don't follow the land ownership of resorts too closely, aren't virtually all resorts leasing land from the forest service? They all seem to use that as their excuse to shut down in the Spring when visitors drop off but there is still plenty of snow on the ground.
 
herzalot said:
The end of the blue run at east (Goldrush) gets pretty steep and often icy.
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I think my last trip to Mt High was a very icy night session when I was working temporarily in Palmdale. Probably unfairly colored my overall memories of the place, because I can also remember how stoked I was to make it down Chisholm back when I was learning. And memories of my brother breaking a rental board in two after launching a rather impressive method air on Borderline. They actually gave him his deposit back...
buggravy said:
I don't follow the land ownership of resorts too closely, aren't virtually all resorts leasing land from the forest service? They all seem to use that as their excuse to shut down in the Spring when visitors drop off but there is still plenty of snow on the ground.
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The big resorts elsewhere buy up land in the valley ASAP so that they can sell it off as condos.
The leased USFS land on the mountain is just there to attract a crowd. Mammoth is totally boxed in by BLM, USFS, NPS, and LADWP, the private land is already mostly in non-Alterra hands.
 
Heading to Mammoth for a Monday through Friday trip soon. Putting my son in lessons but I wanted to start him skiing but he keeps saying he wants to snowboard like me. Still torn on what to do but if he is adamant on boarding then so be it.

If all goes well then snow sliding will be back in my hobby rotation, I used to go 20+ days a season but have dwindled down to just 1-4 days per season in recent years. I need a new setup, still sporting a Burton Custom X from 2008ish and some really uncomfortable 32 boots that are more for park riding than what I like to do these days.
 
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