Ebike news.
- Thread starter Torrent77
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Well-Known Member
I’m mostly concerned about the threat to my access. I don’t know if it helps this “cause” for me to write about it, but it helps me, so here we are.
so to re-iterate for any who may not have heard, OC Parks is planning to reevaluate trail access if they are required to lump ebikes with real bikes. They are currently waiting for a ruling on this. Given how tenuous our access is at this point, the end of MTB on the OC coast is more likely than not if that ruling comes through. The unsanctioned trails are now wider and more visible than the legal ones, and giving every rider a personal chairlift is going to be a disaster for the public’s opinion of mtb.
I’m sure some folks will say they’ll keep riding even after the local trails close, but I don’t believe most of them. It’s easy to poach quick downhills in steep canyons and then dart back on to legal fire road climbs, it will get harder when the climbs are off limits too.
so there’s no hate for any one or any thing. There is a passion for mountain biking in one of its original homes. for me that means a few bike shops don’t get my business, and a bike club doesn’t get my volunteer hours. not because I hate them, but because I cant support their lack of foresight and sound ethics.
so to re-iterate for any who may not have heard, OC Parks is planning to reevaluate trail access if they are required to lump ebikes with real bikes. They are currently waiting for a ruling on this. Given how tenuous our access is at this point, the end of MTB on the OC coast is more likely than not if that ruling comes through. The unsanctioned trails are now wider and more visible than the legal ones, and giving every rider a personal chairlift is going to be a disaster for the public’s opinion of mtb.
I’m sure some folks will say they’ll keep riding even after the local trails close, but I don’t believe most of them. It’s easy to poach quick downhills in steep canyons and then dart back on to legal fire road climbs, it will get harder when the climbs are off limits too.
so there’s no hate for any one or any thing. There is a passion for mountain biking in one of its original homes. for me that means a few bike shops don’t get my business, and a bike club doesn’t get my volunteer hours. not because I hate them, but because I cant support their lack of foresight and sound ethics.
Obsidian
iMTB Rockstah
Same here. I also wonder where the actual line will be as to what is allowed. They will eventually get to a point of having to ban something. How about eBikes that are self propelled instead of pedal assist? Mopeds? Motorcycles? It seems like an easy answer to me ... if it has a motor of any kind, ban them.
It would not be hard for OC Parks to get rid of the eBikes ... they just don't make enough of an effort. Start confiscating them like Pendleton does if people ride bikes on their land. At Oaks all they would need to do is put a ranger on Barham and 3 B's and they would get 90% of them. Same with Whiting, all it would take is two well placed rangers. Aliso and Laguna would be more difficult, but it would not take long for the word to get out if they start confiscating eBikes. I don't know how much the current tickets are, but anyone who can afford a $5,000+ mountain bike is most likely not too concerned about a $50 ticket.
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SnakeCharmer
iMTB Hooligan
For a place that does NOT want to talk about or relate to eBikes, you people sure talk a bunch about them! How about moving on?
herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
Ahhh the justification emerges!Maybe also give them a radar gun too and they could really clean up.
As I had mentioned in a few posts, we actual mt bikers break posted park rules too (speed limits down hill) so that seems to be sufficient equivocation for e-bikers to ignore laws that they don't like. It's also why I never say anything to the ever-growing number of motorcycle riders on the local trails.
Derkderkall
iMTB Rockstah
Maybe if I start a site called iemtbtrails it will be bizarro world and most of the conversations will be about actual mountain biking.....
#letsgiveitarestffs
#letsgiveitarestffs
Faust29
Moderator
Maybe also give them a radar gun too and they could really clean up.
Yep... And that would be a ticket for a behavior that is correctable. Riding an ebike where they are not allowed is not a correctable offense. Nothing the rider does can make it right at the point of offense.
Stkx66
iMTB Rockstah
My good friends ride E bikes. Peeps who got me into this activity. Relationships that go beyond 25 years. Friends that will bail me out of jail and bitch me out later. Those friends. Arizona based. Still, I don’t want one- I have goals. Another 10 lb weight loss and at age 53 to be the best I can be.
DangerDirtyD
iMTB Hooligan
Dan! Pineapple chunks!
bpacifica
Member
Herz...are you freakin' kidding me? "we actual mt. bikers"??? What the hell is this? Thank you for your blatant honesty. Again, you reinforce the point that it is not really about snubbing one's nose at the "rules", it is about your belief that you are better than someone else on some level based on your own ego and set of values. Let's see, I am cruising along on my ebike on this trail that I know is illegal for me to be on but no one is around so what's the problem. Not really hurting anyone or causing any problems. Or, I am screaming down a hill or on a trail doing 20mph plus on my regular bike, occasionally cutting across trails and no one is around so I am not really hurting anyone or causing any problems. So what really is the difference? Please, let the "justification emerge". And please, don't for a moment think that I am wanting your approval or blessing. I am a lurker and have no problem admitting that I am here for the entertainment value on these Ebike Vs. "Purist" threads. I have no delusions that I am going to change the thinking of some of the myopic members here. More importantly, I have walked in your shoes. I didn't just show up with a ebike and start riding yesterday. You have not walked in my shoes yet but here you are to judge. Some of you infer that you will hang it up before you ever succumb to sinking so low as to ride a ebike. Well I call BS. The one thing that keeps most of us going is our love of the great outdoors and what it offers to our spirit. If you are willing to hang it up based on what you are riding and where that places you on this conceived "pecking order", then, as one sage member responded to me a couple of weeks ago, "you are too far out there for me to respond to". (Thanks you Stef). Some of us take the high road, some of us don't...deal with it. If you have a desire to find me, I can be found in CHSP or on Coal Cyn. mostly trying to do the right thing but occasionally falling short. Oh well.. Salud
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Faust29
Moderator
You're still way out there, but I'm going to respond. The last two people on earth who called me Stef are both dead- my father and sister. Coming for you, it sounds as pathetic as the buzz of your motor on illegal trails. Or your whining. Not sure which is worse.
As far as not riding when the ability is no longer present, I guarantee I know someone who is more disabled than you. Guaranfuckingteed. That person won't consider an e-bike, because of the rules. When they are legal, I'd buy one in a second. So, congratulations. In almost 13,ooo posts, you are the first person to earn a hearty "F@ck you" from me.
Sorry, @Mikie
DangerDirtyD
iMTB Hooligan
Congratulations @bpacifica ! Wear that badge proudly!
herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
Easy there cowboy. While yes the "we actual mt bikers" is an intentional jab, the rest of what you attribute to me is fictitious and an amalgam of the comments offered by many others - not me. I don't care about e mt bikes in the overall scope of things. I never even said I wouldn't eventually ride one, or that they aren't fun.
I selfishly care about my local trails, the traffic on them and the conflicts with other trail users that may eventually get the trails closed to all bikes. That includes a wide variety of clueless selfish behavior by mt. bikers not just limited to e-mt bikers. But the blatant entitlement demonstrated locally by e-mt bikers is next-level and very frustrating.
And I may be one of the few non-motorbike riders who recognizes the cognitive dissonance, or hypocrisy of claiming "you are breaking the rules/law" while I do so nearly every time I turn my bike down hill. Again, that's why I don't claim holier-than-thou and why I don't confront e-mtb-ers on local trails.
And yes, call it what you will, but I still say "actual" mt. bikers if you don't have a motor on your bike. Motor biking is a different sport. Salud. Thank you for being a courteous rider no matter what vehicle you are on.
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Faust29
Moderator
DangerDirtyD
iMTB Hooligan
Dood, I’ve been trying! But I want the trigger to be intelligent and witty and a real doozy!Still time for a runner up in this contest, Wolfman.
Danimal
iMTB Addict
Crap I'm going to have to try harder!!!
And i have to stay off these ebike threads because they get personal..... they are more controversial than posting about our sh#tty Whitehouse....
BonsaiNut
iMTB Rockstah
I am cruising along in my car with a blood alcohol level that I know is illegal for me to be driving but it's late at night and no one is around so what's the problem.
Can you imagine if everyone in the country decided that they were going to make up the rules as they went along? A society IS the rules. No rules, no society - just a bunch of anarchy and people doing whatever they want whenever they want... thinking they "know better" than everyone else.
The "people" made the trail rules. If you don't like them, get them changed. I don't like that I can't ride the wilderness SE of Ortega Highway. That doesn't mean that I do it just because I know I won't get caught. YOU are the type of person who gives e-bikers a bad name... and then you wonder about all the hate.
SnakeCharmer
iMTB Hooligan
Are you freakin' kidding me?! ...."what's the problem?"
The problem is morals and you clearly have NONE.
Is it OK run a stop sign if there is nobody there and nobody will see you?
Is it OK to exceed the speed limit anywhere, any time?
Is it OK run through a red light of the intersection that is empty?
Is it OK to park where you are not supposed to park even if it's only going to be for a moment?
And is it OK to ride where you are not supposed to ride even if you are alone there?
Your attitude is the problem. You are exactly what I am seeing out there that turns me off where the majority of the e-bikers that I have encountered is concerned,
So please, yes, take your crap somewhere else.
bpacifica
Member
Mr. Bonsai, I think that you might have misunderstood my point on that. My point was not to justify either scenario. I probably should have worded it better. Like "Or, I am screaming down a hill or on a trail doing 20mph plus on my regular bike, occasionally cutting across trails and no one is around"......For some here there seems to be a little bit of a double standard at times. And my question for you would be, do you hate all mtbrs who occasionally snub the rules or just Emtbrs who occasionally snub the rules? Sorry for the misunderstanding.
hill^billy
iMTB Rockstah
Looks like rational members are cleaning up this mess of PURE ignorance just fine!
Obsidian
iMTB Rockstah
It is not a double standard at all. Your argument is a false equivalency, as in one thing (speeding/illegal trails) has nothing to do with the other (motorized vehicles are not allowed). You are basically trying to rationalize that eBikes should be allowed by pointing out other rules that are being broken, which is absolutely ridiculous.
Perhaps I have missed a few good ones, but it seems like the only arguments I have ever seen from the pro-eBike crowd is "I should be allowed to break the rules too" and/or "what about old/disabled/fat people?" Both are dumb arguments IMO, although I can see the disabled thing getting through as we do live in California.
No eBiker seems to be able to answer the question of where the line should be drawn. I would assume even eBikers don't want to share Santiago Oaks with dirt bikes, right? So where is the line beyond non-motorized Vs. motorized? What should be banned? All of you eBikers also seem to completely dismiss the fact that there is a strong possibility that you will end up getting all bikes banned, not just the ones with motors. That's the thing that pisses me off the most.
That said, I do think the battle is over as far as eBikes are concerned. I have no doubt they will be the dominant bike in 10-15 years. I am not confident there will be any riding at all in OC Parks though ... and for that I will firmly blame eBikers.
herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
From a philosophical point of view, morality does not = abiding by all laws. Morality transcends man’s laws. Man’s laws are often immoral.
I am not really applying this to the e-bike kerfuffle, but when I see some of you posting that law abiding is the same as moral, I need to remind us that the two are NOT synonymous.
However, there is no larger moral issue in the e-MtB debate. Maybe an ethical debate about rule following, or a debate about common courtesy, or a debate about impact, maybe a little bit about rights of the lesser able, but I don’t think any of it rises to the level of morality.
I am not really applying this to the e-bike kerfuffle, but when I see some of you posting that law abiding is the same as moral, I need to remind us that the two are NOT synonymous.
However, there is no larger moral issue in the e-MtB debate. Maybe an ethical debate about rule following, or a debate about common courtesy, or a debate about impact, maybe a little bit about rights of the lesser able, but I don’t think any of it rises to the level of morality.
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