Boutique vs Major brands... thoughts?

I've preferred the "boutique" brands, and buying frames and building them up for a long time now, but I've definitely noticed you can get a really nice complete from major brands for the money nowadays. I was shopping a new XC/Endurance bike and the new 2018 Giant Anthem 29ers are really well equipped for how much you pay.
 
RS VR6 said:
I read somewhere ( I think it was James Huang's twitter) that shops are actually discouraged to discount. I can't remember the reasoning...but it's supposed to be bad for the industry in general.

I worked for two bike shops. One is a straight neighborhood bike shop...the other would be considered a bike "manufacturer" (they owned a couple of molds from a manufacturer in Asia). The manufacturer does not discount whatsoever. Funny thing is...guys would be more than happy to pay full retail for their road bikes and parts. I remember a guy that came in and paid some $200+ OTD for some tubular tires including the install. It was nuts. The tires weren't even that great. They would ask how the bike shop made money by continuously handing out discounts.
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OPEC member nations are discouraged from discounting. That is the point of OPEC. But lucky for us they do it anyway.
 
Like most things, a major player who buys in bulk (Giant, Trek, Cannondale, Special Ed, etc) can spec with great components, dealers can give you a 10% - 15% discount, and everyone is happy. Manufacturer and dealer make a decent profit; you think you got a steal.

What matters is that you like what you buy.

So far I've owned 2 Treks and 2 Giants, plus I bought my daughter a lower-end GT. All of them have been great bikes for the intended use.

I drool over the Kona Raijin Ti, though. :p
 
I'm not sure what it is I do that works. I've always gotten great service and prices from the BikeCo, when others have had negative experiences there. I've never bought a full bike from them (I did buy a 575 frame/shock once - and had someone else build it). I did a couple shop rides with them, but they were all too fast. No reason they should treat me well, but they do. Maybe it's my charm and witty banter! Or my stunning good looks. :oops:

I asked Chris Conroy at Yeti if I could try an XL 303R. He had a rep contact me, and the rep loaned me a demo at Fontana.

I have a mechanic who treated me right at Laguna Cyclery - so I followed him to Revo in Dana Point, Revo in Lake Forest, Pro Bike Supply in Newport then eventually to his own shop Stage 21. He always had time to throw my bike in the stand and fix something like a brake bleed, bottom bracket service, fork install, etc. Great prices on parts. I've ridden with him once. I supplied a few six packs of Sam Adams here and there. I bought a closeout bike for my wife from the Revo shop in Dana Point, much to the chagrin of the owner.

Laguna Cyclery has recently started treating me really well, including the offer of Intense demos. Helps that one of the guys is 6'4" also, and is willing to let me take out whatever he's riding (Primer, Carbine, Recluse). I've never done a shop ride with them, nor bought them beers. Never bought a bike from them, although a friend has.

The Path treats everyone pretty well, if you ask. I've never felt like an insider there however, since there are so many way better and cooler riders that wear The Path gear (looking at you @MattB) and ride with the shop guys. I'm definitely not that cool - or good. A couple of my friends (@Danimal) get treated very well there. They did give me and my friend Scott three demos over a weekend for the fee of one demo (like $50).

Then there was Knolly. A guy on STR put out a call for ambassadors, and I answered. That turned out to be very cool for about three years. They were too slow in fabricating a carbon Warden in XL, so I defected after waiting a year for the new bike. (Knolly are still the best descenders I've ridden).

I wandered into Cyclelogical in Dana Point one weekend, and one of the owners started frothing about the Norco Range. Next thing you know, I was taking one out to Aliso to demo. No charge.

My connections at Intense were work related. I don't care to elaborate here. Just struck up the right conversation with the right guy at the right time. Boom. An XL Tracer to demo for the weekend delivered to my house. 6 mos later, an offer for a full DVO version that I could not refuse.

I struck up a conversation with Dave Turner at Fontana, and next thing you know, he was offering the new carbon RFX to demo. @Cougar was present for this exchange, and actually got the ball rolling chatting up his wife earlier in the day. I made arrangements to pick up the RFX in Temecula and give it a try, but the Intense offer came through before I followed up on the RFX demo ride.

So what have we learned here today? I dunno - talk with key people about riding and bikes. Provide them feedback about their products and service. Maybe something good will happen. :thumbsup:
 
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Oh, and my Cannondale Synapse...it was on clearance. $1,500 MSRP. I got it for $1,200 out the door with tax and everything. 105 components. They wanted it gone; I wanted it under my rear end. Win-win.

I'm sure the Path still made something on it or they wouldn't have let it go for that.
 
HBkites said:
I got it...... I know what I'm doing wrong...... I just don't like talking to people I don't know.
I can elaborate, but this thread was about a completely different subject.
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How can a person know someone he doesn't communicate with? How do you build/maintain a business relationship with anyone? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to razz you. It's all fair game if you wanna talk about it. :)
 
I had a great relationship with my old shop back in Canada. Even before I bought my bike a few years ago, I had bought many skateboard decks and parts. When I did get my bike I already knew the owner. I don't know if I got a "deal", but the service was top notch and I felt really well taken care of. Eventually I joined the local club and would just go in to shoot the shot for 40 minutes, play with the shop dog even when picking up something small.
Makes a world of difference.
I did start getting a preferred discount after a while, which was really great.
 
herzalot said:
The Path treats everyone pretty well, if you ask. I've never felt like an insider there however, since there are so many way better and cooler riders that wear The Path gear (looking at you @MattB) and ride with the shop guys. I'm definitely not that cool - or good. A couple of my friends (@Danimal) get treated very well there. They did give me and my friend Scott three demos over a weekend for the fee of one demo (like $50).
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Haha! I'm certainly not cooler or a better rider than you! I just have a limited, argyle themed cycling wardrobe.:whistling: I actually started going there back in 2012 when I started getting back into the sport after years away from it. Tani helped close the deal on my Tallboy LTc at the time and gave me a good deal on it (I was a new customer that they didn't know from anyone else off the street). More importantly he steered me right on trying newer set-ups (like wider bars and shorter stems) rather than staying stuck in my 90's era ways. I started going on some of their shop rides as I got back into it and met a few of their employees and riders that way. Later I started getting back into XC racing, just for fun, and ended up joining their team. It's not hard to join the team, you don't have to be that good (just look at me:)), and you get discounts (without asking or haggling). If anyone's interested, just ask about it at either location. There are a couple of different options for the team. Without being as smooth a talker as @herzalot, that's been my approach for keeping my bike budget down and still supporting a LBS that I like and supports the local MTB community.
 
Here is an interesting article about a company that most would consider boutique (I think).

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/carbon-conundrum-pole-bicycles-ditch-their-plastic-project.html

They are a company that I do consider buying from...but demoing a bike from them would be pretty much impossible. I really dig their Evolink 140. http://enduro-mtb.com/en/thegeometryaffair-supersized-geometry-work-average-guy/2/

I think the other things the small guys can get away with is doing more off the cuff type of things like the long/low/slack. It's really nothing new. There were guys doing that years ago...where it's something that the big box companies are barely touching on even moving towards 2018.
 
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Derkderkall said:
So I went into one of my local shops yesterday to pick up some sealant, and do a little window shopping to drool over the current floor models. Got into a discussion with one of the shop guys, and basically his feeling was that for the same pricepoint, bigger brands like spec, cannondale... would have better components and better overall bang for buck than smaller brands like santa cruz. Thoughts on this? What are your experiences? What do you feel the boutique/smaller brands bring as an advantage?
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Sorry, back to topic.

Yes for Giant, No for Specialized
 
Runs with Scissors said:
Trek more than Specialized, but less than Giant.
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Marin, (Owned by Trek?) is doing some decently priced/spec'd completes lately. The Hawk Hill and Pine Mountain would be on my short list if I didn't have a bike yet.

I'm poor, so I build frame up, (More expensive in the long run, but easier to do one-piece-at-a-time.) A side effect of this is that I am fussy about parts. Once I have money, I will likely continue to build frame-up, because none of the completes have spec that I like.
 
Haha, I feel like Specialized probably gets some of the biggest advantages on price per parts, but then doubles down on the backend and charges more for the bikes. They are definitely not the best bang for the buck. Not saying you can't find one on sale or make a deal, but msrp for msrp I think they are some of the highest priced bikes out there.
 
I honestly don't find any of the big brands offer too much bang for your buck. Bikes priced at $3500 come with a bunch of house brand parts (bar, stem, saddles, and at times wheels) that are pretty much throw away anyways.

With the internet you can build your own and at times better parts for probably the same or less. If Specialized was to sell their aluminum Stumpjumper 6F FSR frame for around 1800...I'd consider getting one and build it up. Same with YT. I'd totally be into an aluminum Jeffsy as a frame only.
 
RS VR6 said:
I honestly don't find any of the big brands offer too much bang for your buck. Bikes priced at $3500 come with a bunch of house brand parts (bar, stem, saddles, and at times wheels) that are pretty much throw away anyways.

With the internet you can build your own and at times better parts for probably the same or less. If Specialized was to sell their aluminum Stumpjumper 6F FSR frame for around 1800...I'd consider getting one and build it up. Same with YT. I'd totally be into an aluminum Jeffsy as a frame only.
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Hmm not to shoot you down, but an YT Jeffsy comes with great stuff for $2999.00. Maybe something that cost $4k even. Can you tell me what you would upgrade? Sram 1x11 x1 included. Guide RS included. Pike included. Sorry not trying to be a bugger.
FRAME
JEFFSY ALUMINIUM 29"
REAR DERAILLEUR
SRAM X1
WHEELSET
DT SWISS M1900 SPLINE
SHOCK
ROCKSHOX MONARCH RT
SHIFTER
SRAM X1
FRONT TIRE
ONZA IBEX
FORK
ROCKSHOX PIKE RC
CASSETTE
SRAM XG 1150
REAR TIRE
ONZA IBEX
TRAVEL FRONT/REAR
140MM / 140MM
CHAIN
SRAM PC1130
STEM
RACE FACE TURBINE
HEADSET
ACROS AZX-203
BRAKES
SRAM GUIDE RS
HANDLEBAR
RACE FACE TURBINE 35
CRANKSET
RACE FACE TURBINE
DISCS FRONT/REAR
SRAM CENTERLINE 200MM / 180MM
SEATPOST
E*THIRTEEN DROPPER POST
BOTTOM BRACKET
RACE FACE
GRIPS
THE SENSUS LITE
SADDLE
SDG FLY MTN
WEIGHT
13,6 KG / 29,9 LB
 
RS VR6 said:
I honestly don't find any of the big brands offer too much bang for your buck. Bikes priced at $3500 come with a bunch of house brand parts (bar, stem, saddles, and at times wheels) that are pretty much throw away anyways.

With the internet you can build your own and at times better parts for probably the same or less. If Specialized was to sell their aluminum Stumpjumper 6F FSR frame for around 1800...I'd consider getting one and build it up. Same with YT. I'd totally be into an aluminum Jeffsy as a frame only.
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Maybe I just don't know any better, but the four "big brand" bikes I've purchased new, and ridden the crap out of, have served me very well with the original parts.

2012 Cannondale Synapse 105 $1,200
2013 Trek Mamba $899
2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 $2,400
2017 Giant Defy Advanced 2 $1,800

All of them work(ed) perfectly, and I've got 14,000 miles on them collectively. The only one I've done any major changes on is the XTC, and that was just turning it into a 1x vs 2x.

Well, I did drop $500 on the Cannondale to upgrade to Ultegra drivetrain, derailleurs and shifters, but that was so my wife would love it...:laugh:
 
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muni said:
Hmm not to shoot you down, but an YT Jeffsy comes with great stuff for $2999.00. Maybe something that cost $4k even. Can you tell me what you would upgrade? Sram 1x11 x1 included. Guide RS included. Pike included. Sorry not trying to be a bugger.
FRAME
JEFFSY ALUMINIUM 29"
REAR DERAILLEUR
SRAM X1
WHEELSET
DT SWISS M1900 SPLINE
SHOCK
ROCKSHOX MONARCH RT
SHIFTER
SRAM X1
FRONT TIRE
ONZA IBEX
FORK
ROCKSHOX PIKE RC
CASSETTE
SRAM XG 1150
REAR TIRE
ONZA IBEX
TRAVEL FRONT/REAR
140MM / 140MM
CHAIN
SRAM PC1130
STEM
RACE FACE TURBINE
HEADSET
ACROS AZX-203
BRAKES
SRAM GUIDE RS
HANDLEBAR
RACE FACE TURBINE 35
CRANKSET
RACE FACE TURBINE
DISCS FRONT/REAR
SRAM CENTERLINE 200MM / 180MM
SEATPOST
E*THIRTEEN DROPPER POST
BOTTOM BRACKET
RACE FACE
GRIPS
THE SENSUS LITE
SADDLE
SDG FLY MTN
WEIGHT
13,6 KG / 29,9 LB
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I'd ditch the bar, grips, stem, saddle, wheels, the cranks for some 170's (pretty sure they come with some 175. I use 170 on all my bikes) and the SRAM brakes for Shimano or Magura.
 
Runs with Scissors said:
Maybe I just don't know any better, but the four "big brand" bikes I've purchased new, and ridden the crap out of, have served me very well with the original parts.

2012 Cannondale Synapse 105 $1,200
2013 Trek Mamba $899
2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 $2,400
2017 Giant Defy Advanced 2 $1,800

All of them work(ed) perfectly, and I've got 14,000 miles on them collectively. The only one I've done any major changes on is the XTC, and that was just turning it into a 1x vs 2x.

Well, I did drop $500 on the Cannondale to upgrade to Ultegra drivetrain, derailleurs and shifters, but that was so my wife would love it...:laugh:
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Lucky for you, can probably ride any bike and do well. For me, not so. I need the expensive bike tech. If it helps a pro rider to knock off .0002 off his time, it will probably help me knock off 30mins. At least I look fast sitting at the 3 mile turn out huffing and puffing.
 
Runs with Scissors said:
Maybe I just don't know any better, but the four "big brand" bikes I've purchased new, and ridden the crap out of, have served me very well with the original parts.

2012 Cannondale Synapse 105 $1,200
2013 Trek Mamba $899
2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 $2,400
2017 Giant Defy Advanced 2 $1,800

All of them work(ed) perfectly, and I've got 14,000 miles on them collectively. The only one I've done any major changes on is the XTC, and that was just turning it into a 1x vs 2x.

Well, I did drop $500 on the Cannondale to upgrade to Ultegra drivetrain, derailleurs and shifters, but that was so my wife would love it...:laugh:
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I bought a Cervelo S2 as a complete bike. It came with a 90mm stem, a 42cm bar, a ass hatchet of a saddle, some boat anchor wheels. I use a 110mm stem and a 38cm bar. Also put a set of Zipp 404 tublars that I already had. I broke the entire bike down and built it back up. I had two road bikes at the time and shared one set of wheels. Good thing I had a shop discount the time I bought it.:Roflmao

I just can't do stock bikes. The contacts point parts just don't fit me.:sleep:

The markup on bike parts are pretty big. I remember seeing pricing on some FOB FSA SL-K stems. They were like 12 bucks. That stem sells for like 90. I also know how much Intense pays for a bare Tracer frame from the manufacturer. The markup is well...
 
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