2017 Hightower Vs. Bronson (a survey)

I have designed and specified all sorts of products and machines with pressfit bearings though my entire career. Most with great success for their specific purposes. If there is one place on my bike that I don't want a pressfit on it's the BB.
 
I'll try and keep this short... My name is Erik and I think I have an irrational love for my hightower. I just came off of a 2015 trance 275 that was modded to hell and back. That bike was a good trail bike when it started, and ended up a mediocre trail bike and a crappy "enduro" or all mountain bike by the time I was done. It had 160mm travel front and back and descended like a banshee but it was about half a size too small for my 6'2" (large frame) body. It also had some bad manners while climbing due to the mods I did (160mm fork and long shocking rear end).

So... out with the trance and in with the hightower. For me the hightower is a bit of a revelation. I'll expand below. For reference, I have both a 650+ and 29r wheelset. I've ridden the bike a few times in 650+ mode, but I quickly switched to 29r.

Climbing:
It descends better then my trance but that was expected. What I really didn't expect is how well it climbs. I've never had a full suspension bike where there was barely any penalty for climbing out of the saddle. The hightower is definitely that bike. The way the suspension firms up under chain tension was surprising and took some adjustment. It's a strange feeling because it almost has a hard tail like feel when under power, but still some how maintains better traction on loose climbs then my trance did, even when the trance had more bob and felt more compliant.

Overall the bike definitely feels better then what it's wheelbase numbers would suggest. The bike has a very nimble feel while climbing that I didn't quite frankly expect from a long travel bike, wheelsize be damned. The front end does get a little light on the steepest climbs if you're trying to sit and grind it out, but that being said, it doesn't get light to the point where I have to slam my chin to the stem or I actually lift the front tire to the point where the bike won't steer.

Overall this is the best climbing full suspension bike I've ever ridden. I'm sure it's not the best out there, but I can't imagine having the same or more travel and it being any better. Let's put it this way, I demo'd both this and a tallboy, and the hightower gave up very very little to the tallboy. Overall, loose over hard climbing is easier because I have more traction, technical and chunky climbing is significantly better because of the kinematics of VPP3. Even overall sit and spin climbing is easier and I'm pulling bigger gearing then I've ever pulled on a full suspension bike (30/42 on this bike, vs 30/42 on my trance).

Descending:
Ho boy. This bike devours chunk. I still don't have the suspension dialed in and I'm still learning how the bike wants to be ridden and it's already miles ahead of my trance. The way this thing instills confidence through rock gardens, large rollers and steeps is impressive. I'm having an easier time holding my lines, riding out poor line choices and blasting through high speed chunk and baby heads. I'm not sure if it's the wagon wheels i'm feeling vs the small wheels I had before... but for example trails like 5oaks are a joke on this bike compared to my trance which required some focus. Other features like the rock garden on rockit (which have always been easy but required some focus) are a snooze fest. If you keep this bike rolling, it just stays composed and upright and holds a line with very very little rider input.

I'd say that's the biggest difference. My riding is so much more relaxed through chunk on the hightower. It basically just manages the baby head hits for me.

Turning:
This is the biggest surprise about this bike for me. I knew I was going to have better traction in corners and better braking traction, and those improvements are there in spades. That being said there were some negatives that I was expecting with this bike; Having to carve wide corner entries and exits due to the wheel size, sluggish changes in direction and reactions to minute rider inputs and most importantly, the bike standing up in the corners on the brakes.

So, onto the negatives... If you grab a handfull of brakes while corner with this bike, it'll stand you up and stack you off the trail. There is no doubt that this bike likes to be ridden like race cars like to be driven. Bad habbits of not setting up your braking early before the corner and then getting off the brakes and coasting and accelerating through the corner will lead to you not liking this bike. That being said, it's no where near as bad as I thought it was going to be. I've only noticed this on the few occasions where I have completely blown a corner and I'm doing some "take the handlebars jesus" type of braking.

Other then that, the other things I was worried about are non issues. This bike has almost no issues switching directions on shady lines and on narrow/blind trails. I'm shocked at how nimble it is considering the reputation of long travel and wheel base 29rs handling like school busses.

I will say that this bike produces a shocking amount of grip, but I don't think that's specific to this bike overall. I think I'm noticing that because I'm coming off of 275 setups. But, I do have an apples to apples comparison because I was running the same tires on both my trance and the hightower. The hightower has better grip, holds a line better and harder and just flat out carries speed through the corners better then everything I've ever ridden.

I will say however, coming from a smaller wheeled bike requires an adjustment. This bike likes to be leaned waaaaayyyyyy over. It feels like i'm leaning the bike over like I'm in a mtb movie. You really need to shove the inside handlebar down to get really take a set and get the most out of it. This is why it gets so sketchy when you're trying to brake and turn because it negates the lean it wants/needs and forces the bike to stand up and be out of it's element. I'm still learning the ins and outs of how this thing turns, but so far, it turns better then everything I've ever spent time on.

Jumps/Drops/Airtime:
I'm still sorta feeling this one out as I'm doctors orders not to do this stuff... that being said, I can't help myself. From the reviews I read, I expected this bike to be a one trick, monster truck like pony. I am constantly surprised how willing it is to pop off small features and how nimble it is in the air. I have no issues styling things out with a little whip or a pop off of a hip jump with this thing. I can't wait to get it up to big bear and unclip it's wing. It's incredibly stable in the air.

Well it can't all be perfect...
So, you have to have some sort of drawback with the bike... for me that's the rear shock. My bike has the monarch R. I've ridden this bike with the rt3 of the cc model. Both shocks were a huge letdown to the frame. The new fox products may end up better, but I would be surprised. This bike seems to be picky about the rear shock setup and because of the rather extreme leverage ratio curve of the VPP3, it really could use something plush with very light damping. I'm going to go ahead and suggest that a change to the oem shock would really get the bike to a more play-full place for socal riding.

I also think that this bike (and any aggressive longer travel 29r) really responds to a very stiff wheelset more then the bikes of old (read: 275 and 26rs). I'd go as far as to say that a carbon wheelset for this bike is more of a noticeable upgrade then on every bike I've ridden before. I had the chance to throw my buddies enve's on my trance for a run previously, and I can't say that I noticed a difference my Flow MK2's and his enve's for the 30 minutes that I tried them. However, on the hightower, the difference between my bike with 30mm id carbon wheels and the demo bike I rode with the aluminum arc27 hoops is significant. The bike holds lines better, feels more confident and is more willing to switch directions. I think that this wouldn't be such an extreme feeling if I were running lighter weight tires... but I'm running 950 gram tires front and rear.

Overall, I'd be especially focused on spending money for a good, stiff light weight wheelset. I think you could get there with aluminum in terms of feel, but I do think that you'd be giving up some acceleration benefits. Overall, it's a pretty amazing feeling to have the stiffness and the weight gains, but then also be able to carry beefy 2.3 maxxis tires for just insane grip levels. It's definitely something that should be considered.

Fun stuff I didn't expect
The adjustable rear shock position is actually really cool, even if you're not planning on playing with the 275+ setup. The 29r setup responds well by being ridden in the high position. It gives the bike a slight nudge to the trail/xc side when you run it in the high setting with 29r wheels. It gives the bike a smidge more rock strike clearance and definitely makes it a bit more nimble on slower speeds. It does improve the bikes tracking on steep climbs and overall, has a great feel for every day trail riding. I could see myself running the bike in the high setting for the majority of socal riding that I do, and swapping to the low setting for shuttling or park riding.

Hightower Vs Bronson
There is no denying that this bikes are siblings. They both occupy the same segment, same riding style and fill the same void in the garage. They are the quintessential one bike to rule them all full suspension bikes. That being said, I think the hightower has an edge in climbing and a is more comfortable acting like a trail bike then the bronson is. In contrast, I think the Bronson is more playful and has the edge shooting blind steeps in laguna where direction changes are un-expected.

I think you can't go wrong with both... but the new crop of capable 29rs can't be ignored for the type or riding we do here in socal. The hightower is just as happy grinding out fire roads for hours on end as it is scaring the Sh!t out of you in laguna.

These bikes are both worth a ride, and it really comes down to which wheel size you're really looking for. What a great time to be into bikes.
 
"Well it can't all be perfect...
So, you have to have some sort of drawback with the bike... for me that's the rear shock. My bike has the monarch R. I've ridden this bike with the rt3 of the cc model. Both shocks were a huge letdown to the frame. The new fox products may end up better, but I would be surprised. This bike seems to be picky about the rear shock setup and because of the rather extreme leverage ratio curve of the VPP3, it really could use something plush with very light damping. I'm going to go ahead and suggest that a change to the oem shock would really get the bike to a more play-full place for socal riding. "

This is what puts me off to VPP
 
Mikie said:
@Ebruner .
Well done young man! A very professional and thorough article. I get the impression you do this for a living. I can't tell you how inspired I now am to climb on these bikes.
Thank you!
Mike
Click to expand...

It isn't what i do for a living, but i do have a journalism major I don't use lol. Sorry about the grammer and typo issues, I didn't have the time to proof read it, so this went out in rough draft mode. I can't wait to hear what you think of both bikes, they are both amazing machines.
 
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Mikie said:
@Ebruner .
Well done young man! A very professional and thorough article. I get the impression you do this for a living. I can't tell you how inspired I now am to climb on these bikes.
Thank you!
Mike
Click to expand...

Seriously... I read his review twice and I'm ready to run down and buy one! :poop:

He encapsulated everything that I've seen firsthand when I've come across those bikes in the wild. And FS bikes don't usually catch my eye. I like the bling. I like the stoke that you bombardiers get while aboard. But, I can't picture myself on any of them... Until I saw the Hightower in real life. Damn kids need to graduate college faster. :D
 
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dustyyoungblood said:
"Well it can't all be perfect...
So, you have to have some sort of drawback with the bike... for me that's the rear shock. My bike has the monarch R. I've ridden this bike with the rt3 of the cc model. Both shocks were a huge letdown to the frame. The new fox products may end up better, but I would be surprised. This bike seems to be picky about the rear shock setup and because of the rather extreme leverage ratio curve of the VPP3, it really could use something plush with very light damping. I'm going to go ahead and suggest that a change to the oem shock would really get the bike to a more play-full place for socal riding. "

This is what puts me off to VPP
Click to expand...
Dustan, I hear yah. I run a "Very" soft suspension. I'm thinking that as plush as I run it, the VPP will still have that hardtail climb and the plush descent I'm looking for. Time will tell.
 
Ebruner said:
I'll try and keep this short... My name is Erik and I think I have an irrational love for my hightower. I just came off of a 2015 trance 275 that was modded to hell and back. That bike was a good trail bike when it started, and ended up a mediocre trail bike and a crappy "enduro" or all mountain bike by the time I was done. It had 160mm travel front and back and descended like a banshee but it was about half a size too small for my 6'2" (large frame) body. It also had some bad manners while climbing due to the mods I did (160mm fork and long shocking rear end).

So... out with the trance and in with the hightower. For me the hightower is a bit of a revelation. I'll expand below. For reference, I have both a 650+ and 29r wheelset. I've ridden the bike a few times in 650+ mode, but I quickly switched to 29r.

Climbing:
It descends better then my trance but that was expected. What I really didn't expect is how well it climbs. I've never had a full suspension bike where there was barely any penalty for climbing out of the saddle. The hightower is definitely that bike. The way the suspension firms up under chain tension was surprising and took some adjustment. It's a strange feeling because it almost has a hard tail like feel when under power, but still some how maintains better traction on loose climbs then my trance did, even when the trance had more bob and felt more compliant.

Overall the bike definitely feels better then what it's wheelbase numbers would suggest. The bike has a very nimble feel while climbing that I didn't quite frankly expect from a long travel bike, wheelsize be damned. The front end does get a little light on the steepest climbs if you're trying to sit and grind it out, but that being said, it doesn't get light to the point where I have to slam my chin to the stem or I actually lift the front tire to the point where the bike won't steer.

Overall this is the best climbing full suspension bike I've ever ridden. I'm sure it's not the best out there, but I can't imagine having the same or more travel and it being any better. Let's put it this way, I demo'd both this and a tallboy, and the hightower gave up very very little to the tallboy. Overall, loose over hard climbing is easier because I have more traction, technical and chunky climbing is significantly better because of the kinematics of VPP3. Even overall sit and spin climbing is easier and I'm pulling bigger gearing then I've ever pulled on a full suspension bike (30/42 on this bike, vs 30/42 on my trance).

Descending:
Ho boy. This bike devours chunk. I still don't have the suspension dialed in and I'm still learning how the bike wants to be ridden and it's already miles ahead of my trance. The way this thing instills confidence through rock gardens, large rollers and steeps is impressive. I'm having an easier time holding my lines, riding out poor line choices and blasting through high speed chunk and baby heads. I'm not sure if it's the wagon wheels i'm feeling vs the small wheels I had before... but for example trails like 5oaks are a joke on this bike compared to my trance which required some focus. Other features like the rock garden on rockit (which have always been easy but required some focus) are a snooze fest. If you keep this bike rolling, it just stays composed and upright and holds a line with very very little rider input.

I'd say that's the biggest difference. My riding is so much more relaxed through chunk on the hightower. It basically just manages the baby head hits for me.

Turning:
This is the biggest surprise about this bike for me. I knew I was going to have better traction in corners and better braking traction, and those improvements are there in spades. That being said there were some negatives that I was expecting with this bike; Having to carve wide corner entries and exits due to the wheel size, sluggish changes in direction and reactions to minute rider inputs and most importantly, the bike standing up in the corners on the brakes.

So, onto the negatives... If you grab a handfull of brakes while corner with this bike, it'll stand you up and stack you off the trail. There is no doubt that this bike likes to be ridden like race cars like to be driven. Bad habbits of not setting up your braking early before the corner and then getting off the brakes and coasting and accelerating through the corner will lead to you not liking this bike. That being said, it's no where near as bad as I thought it was going to be. I've only noticed this on the few occasions where I have completely blown a corner and I'm doing some "take the handlebars jesus" type of braking.

Other then that, the other things I was worried about are non issues. This bike has almost no issues switching directions on shady lines and on narrow/blind trails. I'm shocked at how nimble it is considering the reputation of long travel and wheel base 29rs handling like school busses.

I will say that this bike produces a shocking amount of grip, but I don't think that's specific to this bike overall. I think I'm noticing that because I'm coming off of 275 setups. But, I do have an apples to apples comparison because I was running the same tires on both my trance and the hightower. The hightower has better grip, holds a line better and harder and just flat out carries speed through the corners better then everything I've ever ridden.

I will say however, coming from a smaller wheeled bike requires an adjustment. This bike likes to be leaned waaaaayyyyyy over. It feels like i'm leaning the bike over like I'm in a mtb movie. You really need to shove the inside handlebar down to get really take a set and get the most out of it. This is why it gets so sketchy when you're trying to brake and turn because it negates the lean it wants/needs and forces the bike to stand up and be out of it's element. I'm still learning the ins and outs of how this thing turns, but so far, it turns better then everything I've ever spent time on.

Jumps/Drops/Airtime:
I'm still sorta feeling this one out as I'm doctors orders not to do this stuff... that being said, I can't help myself. From the reviews I read, I expected this bike to be a one trick, monster truck like pony. I am constantly surprised how willing it is to pop off small features and how nimble it is in the air. I have no issues styling things out with a little whip or a pop off of a hip jump with this thing. I can't wait to get it up to big bear and unclip it's wing. It's incredibly stable in the air.

Well it can't all be perfect...
So, you have to have some sort of drawback with the bike... for me that's the rear shock. My bike has the monarch R. I've ridden this bike with the rt3 of the cc model. Both shocks were a huge letdown to the frame. The new fox products may end up better, but I would be surprised. This bike seems to be picky about the rear shock setup and because of the rather extreme leverage ratio curve of the VPP3, it really could use something plush with very light damping. I'm going to go ahead and suggest that a change to the oem shock would really get the bike to a more play-full place for socal riding.

I also think that this bike (and any aggressive longer travel 29r) really responds to a very stiff wheelset more then the bikes of old (read: 275 and 26rs). I'd go as far as to say that a carbon wheelset for this bike is more of a noticeable upgrade then on every bike I've ridden before. I had the chance to throw my buddies enve's on my trance for a run previously, and I can't say that I noticed a difference my Flow MK2's and his enve's for the 30 minutes that I tried them. However, on the hightower, the difference between my bike with 30mm id carbon wheels and the demo bike I rode with the aluminum arc27 hoops is significant. The bike holds lines better, feels more confident and is more willing to switch directions. I think that this wouldn't be such an extreme feeling if I were running lighter weight tires... but I'm running 950 gram tires front and rear.

Overall, I'd be especially focused on spending money for a good, stiff light weight wheelset. I think you could get there with aluminum in terms of feel, but I do think that you'd be giving up some acceleration benefits. Overall, it's a pretty amazing feeling to have the stiffness and the weight gains, but then also be able to carry beefy 2.3 maxxis tires for just insane grip levels. It's definitely something that should be considered.

Fun stuff I didn't expect
The adjustable rear shock position is actually really cool, even if you're not planning on playing with the 275+ setup. The 29r setup responds well by being ridden in the high position. It gives the bike a slight nudge to the trail/xc side when you run it in the high setting with 29r wheels. It gives the bike a smidge more rock strike clearance and definitely makes it a bit more nimble on slower speeds. It does improve the bikes tracking on steep climbs and overall, has a great feel for every day trail riding. I could see myself running the bike in the high setting for the majority of socal riding that I do, and swapping to the low setting for shuttling or park riding.

Hightower Vs Bronson
There is no denying that this bikes are siblings. They both occupy the same segment, same riding style and fill the same void in the garage. They are the quintessential one bike to rule them all full suspension bikes. That being said, I think the hightower has an edge in climbing and a is more comfortable acting like a trail bike then the bronson is. In contrast, I think the Bronson is more playful and has the edge shooting blind steeps in laguna where direction changes are un-expected.

I think you can't go wrong with both... but the new crop of capable 29rs can't be ignored for the type or riding we do here in socal. The hightower is just as happy grinding out fire roads for hours on end as it is scaring the Sh!t out of you in laguna.

These bikes are both worth a ride, and it really comes down to which wheel size you're really looking for. What a great time to be into bikes.
Click to expand...

Sold!
 
Mikie said:
I think for me there is more to it than just being press fit and concerns with creaks. You said it yourself that the rocking motion a bottom bracket goes through is a different force than other locations go through.
For me? I just don't like them. Don't wanna buy the tools to work on them. I like good ole fashion threaded BB's and can count on two fingers the times I ever had a creaky bottom bracket in the 25 years I have been riding threaded bottom brackets. I think they are more adjustable and user friendly.
Whether they are justifiable as a valid component or not, they suck in Mikie's book, end of the chapter... lol!
Click to expand...
Agreed. It's not the creakiness that bothers me, it's the need for special tools and/or the need for adhesives when installing/removing pressfit bearings/cups.

Pressfit is complicated to work on.

Threaded is simple.
 
UPSed said:
Especially in the "plus" configuration. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

That's something I've been thinking about... I think Mikie may be more of a "traditionalist" and not such a big fan of the plus tires. Kinda like someone else I ride with who has zero desire to even try them. :whistling: In all honesty, though, that unnamed guy doesn't really need the plus tires. He can ride just about everything that the "big bike" guys ride. No need to carry the extra rubber and sweat to get it to the top of the hill. I think Mikie, with his skill level, will be a "normal" tire guy.

Me? I need all the help I can get! My plus tires almost kept Jason in sight coming down STT the other day and he had a road tire on the back. Well, it wasn't really a road tire, but it may as well have been. :p
 
Faust29 said:
That's something I've been thinking about... I think Mikie may be more of a "traditionalist" and not such a big fan of the plus tires. Kinda like someone else I ride with who has zero desire to even try them. :whistling: In all honesty, though, that unnamed guy doesn't really need the plus tires. He can ride just about everything that the "big bike" guys ride. No need to carry the extra rubber and sweat to get it to the top of the hill. I think Mikie, with his skill level, will be a "normal" tire guy.

Me? I need all the help I can get! My plus tires almost kept Jason in sight coming down STT the other day and he had a road tire on the back. Well, it wasn't really a road tire, but it may as well have been. :p
Click to expand...
So let me ask a question...
Can you run 27.5 on a 27.5+ bike? If so, wouldn't I have the option of all three on a Hightower?
 
Dang it all this discussion of how bad azz the hightower is has me seriously contemplating highjacking my stepdads brand new bike to go flog on it for a while this Sunday since he hasn't properly broken it in yet. Will report back if this happens.

Since I picked it up locally I was the first one to pedal it around the block though. Felt like a chopper with only 130psi in the rear shock.
IMG_6098.jpg
 
Mikie said:
So let me ask a question...
Can you run 27.5 on a 27.5+ bike? If so, wouldn't I have the option of all three on a Hightower?
Click to expand...
The only problem I see is it may lower your bottom bracket a little too much. When my 2.8s wear out I'm going to try a set of 2.6s. From what I hear the 2.6s offer almost as much traction as the 2.8s but don't have the bouncy feel. Personally I don't notice a bouncy feel with the 2.8s.
 
I actually want to find a boost 27.5" 35mm id rear wheel with a 2.6 rear tire to put on and take some measurements. With a 29r front wheel and a 150mm fork and the bike in high mode, I think the numbers would be reasonable. For super steep terrain and bike parks, it might be the hot setup. I think it would actually be really cool and I don't think the bb height would be all that low.
 
mtnbikej said:
I know my wife's Tallboy has a really low BB, even with the flip chip and 27.5+ tires.....she gets enough pedal strikes.....regular 27.5 would be too low.
Click to expand...
My Jet 9 as well. I have since adapted and get minimal pedal strikes. When I go to 2.6 hopefully it will just be a learning curve again and not way too low.
 
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Ebruner said:
I actually want to find a boost 27.5" 35mm id rear wheel with a 2.6 rear tire to put on and take some measurements. With a 29r front wheel and a 150mm fork and the bike in high mode, I think the numbers would be reasonable. For super steep terrain and bike parks, it might be the hot setup. I think it would actually be really cool and I don't think the bb height would be all that low.
Click to expand...


I did the opposite before the plus craze was popular... Regular 29er on the back and a 27.5x2.8 on the front. When the plus wheels first came out, a lot of guys ran 1/2 fat, because that's what the frame/fork would allow.
 
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