Voodoo Tom
MTB Addict
If I'm not mistaken Kirk's killer time was on a Ripley LS 29er. That said it would've had the 35mm wide Ibis wheels with probably 2.35 rubber so still a big contact patch with gobs of traction.
2017 Hightower Vs. Bronson (a survey)
- Thread starter Mikie
- Start date
mtnbikej
J-Zilla
If......and I mean IF I was in the market for a new FS rig, I'd be gravitating towards the Hightower.
Coming from a Tallboy.....which by the way, has handled everything I have thrown at it.....makes the minor travel increase to the HT the perfect do everything bike. The 3rd generation of the VPP suspension climbs well, but descends well. I'm not gonna write a thesis about it. What does it mean? You'll be able to take it out on those all day death marches, yet still enjoy the downs. It will also handle the other trails that you ride on occasion.....ie: Noble, Cannell, Palm Canyon with ease. Talk about a 1 bike quiver.
I know it has been said before....29 vs. 26 is good for about 1" of suspension travel. So generally a 5" 29er will handle a chunky travel similar to a 6" 26er.
You asked for an opinion between these 2 bikes. Most of us here know how you ride, and where you ride. The HT would definitely be a game changer for you. You are also looking at a company with the best warranty in the business.
I would love to try out a HT.....but I won't. I know I will want one....but I just cannot justify having one.
Coming from a Tallboy.....which by the way, has handled everything I have thrown at it.....makes the minor travel increase to the HT the perfect do everything bike. The 3rd generation of the VPP suspension climbs well, but descends well. I'm not gonna write a thesis about it. What does it mean? You'll be able to take it out on those all day death marches, yet still enjoy the downs. It will also handle the other trails that you ride on occasion.....ie: Noble, Cannell, Palm Canyon with ease. Talk about a 1 bike quiver.
I know it has been said before....29 vs. 26 is good for about 1" of suspension travel. So generally a 5" 29er will handle a chunky travel similar to a 6" 26er.
You asked for an opinion between these 2 bikes. Most of us here know how you ride, and where you ride. The HT would definitely be a game changer for you. You are also looking at a company with the best warranty in the business.
I would love to try out a HT.....but I won't. I know I will want one....but I just cannot justify having one.
rossage
iMTB Hooligan
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scan
iMTB Rockstah
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UPSed
iMTB Hooligan
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AKAKTM
Well-Known Member
I've spent a good amount of time on the new 2017 and 2017 (White/Gray) HT, the TB3 (just sold one), Mojo 3 (have one) and new Ripley V3 (have one). All are really great bikes. I like the feel of the latest DW a little better than VPP3. Seems a bit more efficient, yet just as plush once the suspension is dialed in. Again, they are all excellent bikes and I'd be happy to ride any of them. That said, at one point, I had a TB3, Ripley V3, HT, Bronson CC, and Mojo 3 in the garage all at once (don't ask how!). When I would go out to ride GE or Tapia or OC or most anything around, I'd grab the Ripley V3 almost automatically. Interestingly, the most fun bike for popping off stuff and playing around was the size Medium (a little too small) TB3. But you all know I am biased!
My son has a very nice large Bronson CC for sale now if anyone is looking. Fadi at DSP has the new 2018 HT demo in and available to ride.
My son has a very nice large Bronson CC for sale now if anyone is looking. Fadi at DSP has the new 2018 HT demo in and available to ride.
littlewave
Well-Known Member
Hard to go wrong these days, but especially hard to go wrong with either of those Santa Cruzers. Yeti still in the running?
I'm biased toward Ibis, they just seem to work well for me. Which is to say, swing your leg over the contenders for your new bike and choose the one that feels
I'm biased toward Ibis, they just seem to work well for me. Which is to say, swing your leg over the contenders for your new bike and choose the one that feels
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Cornholio
iMTB Rockstah
herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
Very true. As soon as he gets a new bike, tall guys like me get on the list for when he sells it off for the next one. Yeti SB6, Firebird, etc.Until next week when Mo is on yet another bike...
Varaxis
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a curious rider. Wonder if he has a way with words, to communicate his experience to help answer questions like this. Last time I've seen him was on STR, in a photo sporting a deep tan, reportedly riding the heck out of a TB LTc out in the OC (think it either got damaged/totaled or stolen). What's that trail system called, with stage coach, bumblebee and what not? It's been awhile for me...
Edit: Santiago Oaks. That's where I rode with him once, riding with Steve and the other big guy (Nomadc). I think that was his main riding area at the time. I recall he broke off to ride a more technical trail, planning to meet up with the group at the bottom. I guess he moved to the big boy stuff at Aliso and is killing it there, Ratboy style?
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kioti
iMTB Rockstah
Varaxis
Well-Known Member
*reluctantly clicks social media link* *clicks through 6 pics before realizing the bike selfie wasn't a duplicate of the first pic* *learns nothing except Mo has a lot of sponsors, apparently does coaching, lives in a van, does wheelies, and rides his Hightower on Telonics, not quite like Brian Lopes*
<-- envious of the van life and early retirement
herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
Can it be early retirement if you've never had a career and you're still in your 20s? Mo is stoked on riding and has drifted from bike shop to bike shop to support his habit. I think he's currently at Bike Co. He's been at Pro Bike Supply, Laguna Cyclery, Cyclelogical and The Path. He rides mostly off-menu stuff. Good memory about the Tallboy getting damaged on the back of his car, but I think the tan you were referring to is mostly his ethnic heritage. Here's Mo on my Knolly Endorphin in Sedona:
Anyway, since this thread is about providing our collective opinions to Mikie about a next bike, I can ask Mo what he likes better about his Hightower than the Bronson, SB6, Firebird, Niner WFO or any other bike he has owned. He does do high mileage rides, so his input may have some relevance beyond steep chunk.
bvader
iMTB Rockstah
I still think you need to ride them side-by-side here's why.
Personal preference and what you're after
On my trip to Park City I rode the yeti 4.5 clearly not as Monster as the high tower but a 29er again none the less. It was most excellent it reminded me of the rollover of the 29 the climbing of the 29 the stability of the 29 the speed of the 29
And then I got back home got on the Bronson and realized how much fun it is and how much more little hopping side to side unweighting touching this rock lipping that lip catching a little extra air here manual this wheelie that, rear tire up rolling on the front... I'm just much more active on it
Sure you can do all that but in some ways you're actually fighting the the 29 because it is so inherently stable. I think size strength energy and style play a big roll. (pun intended)
But hey if I could own on them all I would
Personal preference and what you're after
On my trip to Park City I rode the yeti 4.5 clearly not as Monster as the high tower but a 29er again none the less. It was most excellent it reminded me of the rollover of the 29 the climbing of the 29 the stability of the 29 the speed of the 29
And then I got back home got on the Bronson and realized how much fun it is and how much more little hopping side to side unweighting touching this rock lipping that lip catching a little extra air here manual this wheelie that, rear tire up rolling on the front... I'm just much more active on it
Sure you can do all that but in some ways you're actually fighting the the 29 because it is so inherently stable. I think size strength energy and style play a big roll. (pun intended)
But hey if I could own on them all I would
mtnbikej
J-Zilla
Mikie
Admin/iMTB Hooligan
And preferably do. I got mad skills on a beach cruiser. I beach cruise it hard. With a cup holder I can hammer a Mojito, Long Island Ice Tea, yeah... I'm pretty versatile.
But I get it BV. I got to ride some bikes and spend time on them. Heck I could end up with another Yeti but I, like others have been in a budget pinch cuz Lord Almighty knows you aint gonna get rich as a MTB Forum Owner, ha hah!
It's just that I have options and financial flexibility with access to SC. So it makes it appealing. Santa Cruz being within my favorite bikes circle makes it all the better!
LLPoolJ
iMTB Rockstah
You are rich you have us.
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evdog
iMTB Rockstah
Only mentioning it since you didn't, in case you were not aware..... Ibis uses threaded BBs as well. Interesting that the two shops out of Santa Cruz both stuck with threaded when most other companies moved to press fit.
It wasn't a deal breaker for me but I prefer threaded since it's easier to deal with myself, and I have enough creaks and noises on my bikes already I don't really want something that's prone to more of the same.
I've demo'd a lot of bikes the last few years. It's hard to go wrong with most of them, but some designs just work better for the riding you do, personally. I demo'd Santa Cruz more times than any other bike. Generally I liked them and wouldn't hesitate to buy one, but still liked the DW link bikes by Ibis and Turner better. I was impressed by the Intense Primer and Spider too. My only suggestion is to ride a variety of bikes before deciding, especially because designs are different now than even a few years ago. It will give you a better frame of reference in deciding if the HT or Bronson is the bike for you, and maybe you'll find something you like even better.
Varaxis
Well-Known Member
I'm so tired of hearing the general pressfit complaints, especially because of the irony that there's so many press fits on the bike that aren't considered, particularly one right in the same area as the BB, namely the crank interface with the BB bearings. Fork steerer and stanchions -> fork crown, saddle rails -> saddle shell, and chain links, to name a few more that aren't secured by any other means but friction. Many others that are only lightly secured are cranks, seatposts, pivots (with radial bearings, rather than bushings or ACB), shocks, wheels, chainrings... then there's loose fit stuff, like cables and brake lines.
The issue is that there isn't anything to hold the individual parts together besides friction, and there's a lot of force trying to work it loose, yet people have the expectation that it will hold up. It's chiefly PF30 that is the issue, due to it being tall and narrowly spaced, which is unideal for bracing against the rocking motion of forces going into the crank. PF92 holds up extremely well, and actually provides more chassis stiffness, without taking up valuable space (for pivots, chainstays, tires, cable routing, etc.) like the PF30 does. BB30 axles aren't really any lighter than 24mm ones, and the bearings are heavier and have more drag... not even sure why that took off, except perhaps because it's easier to craft aluminum (splines and threads) than it is to do the same with steel.
Threaded BBs have a history of creaking too, but I suppose it's better than PF30. At least you can lessen the risk of creaking by avoiding metal-to-metal friction/interference fits altogether. For example, Shimano BBs come with a plastic shim that goes between the bearing and crank's axle, which also acts as a labyrinth seal, that adds no additional drag. Will also add that if you're trying to use a 30mm axle in a threaded design, don't expect the BBs to last very long, especially not RF BBs, which still have terrible sealing (I expect the worse when I see people hose down their BB area).
In short, PF30 is
. PF92 is 
. Don't throw them into the same fire. 
BTW, Shimano and Praxis cranks are the stiffest on the market still. Any force going into flexing/bending carbon and weight weenie cranks are likely not returned in any useful manner. Not an useful place to lose weight anyways, since it's so low and centered. Anyone remember this: http://www.imtbtrails.com/forum/threads/did-you-know-crank-stiffness.994/
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HBkites
Well-Known Member
IMO, in the near future, tire manufacturers will blur the line between 27.5 and 27.5+. I think 2.5 and 2.6 tires will work well for many setups. Personally I'm looking forward to trying a 2.4 - 2.6 tire on my 27.5+ rear wheel.Small niggle... The Hightower is 27.5+ capable, not standard 27.5, like the Bronson. There is a huge difference in the overall diameter of 27.5 and 27.5+. Hardly any difference between the + and 29, though...
And, by the way, that Hightower is the only full suspension bike to catch my eye in years. With two kids in college, I won't be hopping on for a demo anytime soon. You, however, need to get your butt aboard one ASAP.
mike
iMTB Hooligan
This bears repeating. A bike might speak to you. OTOH, it might feel totally foreign because it's so different, and it could be incumbent on you to adapt what you know to a new format. My Bronson v1 felt strange at first, and I ended up with it as my only bike for a couple of years. I learned more on that bike than any I've owned.
Faust29
Moderator
Good article on the 2.6 format... It's more in line with the 2.8-3.0 tires that are popular, not so much with the 2.5s and below. I could see a 2.6 on the back to lighten it up a little, and still give more volume than a normal tire.
http://reviews.mtbr.com/a-new-tire-size-is-coming-and-it-doesnt-suck
UPSed
iMTB Hooligan
I will be trying 2.6 front and rear for my next plus set. I love the 2.8 setup I have now but it almost seems to be too much for our current conditions.
evdog
iMTB Rockstah
I usually keep bikes for a long time, so it's not unusual to have noises coming from several of those places at any given time. But those other potential trouble spots you mention exist regardless of which BB type I choose. My point is, why add one more when threaded BBs have been very reliable for me? Maybe PF92 is better than PF30.... but I still can't work on it myself easily, nor is it interchangeable with any of my current bikes. So if the choice is there I'll stay with threaded. Fortunately SC, Ibis, and Knolly among others have stuck with threaded.
bvader
iMTB Rockstah
Mr M. Was not trying to include other Manufacturer... Just was trying to counter a bit of the prevailing all things 29. Having an inside with SC that's awesome.
Also I have finite budget and space so what I really *want* vs what I *should* is very important factor for me.
Mikie
Admin/iMTB Hooligan
I think for me there is more to it than just being press fit and concerns with creaks. You said it yourself that the rocking motion a bottom bracket goes through is a different force than other locations go through.
For me? I just don't like them. Don't wanna buy the tools to work on them. I like good ole fashion threaded BB's and can count on two fingers the times I ever had a creaky bottom bracket in the 25 years I have been riding threaded bottom brackets. I think they are more adjustable and user friendly.
Whether they are justifiable as a valid component or not, they suck in Mikie's book, end of the chapter... lol!
