Coronavirus. Not to be confused with Norcovirus.

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tick said:
The “Stanford Doctor” is a retired neurosurgeon working at a economics-focused think tank. So read his epidemiology opinions with that in mind. He knows as much about the virus as you do.
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Who the F cares where he works now. He's forgot more about this stuff than we'll ever know. He's just giving you FACTS based on actual numbers. You can keep on believing otherwise if that's what you choose to do. Stay in your house until 2025 when the Harvard team says Covid19 19 will finally work it's way thru the entire population. In the meantime, the numbers keep on rolling in from antibodies studies in Miami (they've done 3 rounds now) as well as NY that repeatedly show a fatality rate of less than 1%.

From the NY study: The tests show 2.7 million in New York state have developed antibodies through exposure. Meaning, with 16,000 COVID-19 deaths, the state’s mortality rate is a little less than 0.6 percent. Nowhere near as lethal as the dire 3.4 percent death rate the World Health Organization was billing early last month, and these figures will keep changing as more data comes to hand.
 
fos'l said:
Just read that Chris Cuomo, brother of the NY Governor who fought the disease for three weeks and survived, has been tested and discovered to have antibodies to the "short term" and "long term" antigens. Did they finally discover more than one type of "disease"? First that I've read about it except Chinese studies.
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It's in reference to the two types of antibody isotopes that form during the immune response. IgM are the "short term" antibodies that form in response to initial infection and IgG are the antibodies that develop later and provide "long term" immunity.
 
mtbMike said:
Who the F cares where he works now. He's forgot more about this stuff than we'll ever know. He's just giving you FACTS based on actual numbers. You can keep on believing otherwise if that's what you choose to do. Stay in your house until 2025 when the Harvard team says Covid19 19 will finally work it's way thru the entire population. In the meantime, the numbers keep on rolling in from antibodies studies in Miami (they've done 3 rounds now) as well as NY that repeatedly show a fatality rate of less than 1%.

From the NY study: The tests show 2.7 million in New York state have developed antibodies through exposure. Meaning, with 16,000 COVID-19 deaths, the state’s mortality rate is a little less than 0.6 percent. Nowhere near as lethal as the dire 3.4 percent death rate the World Health Organization was billing early last month, and these figures will keep changing as more data comes to hand.
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I don’t work around neurosurgeons, I only work around rocket scientists. But here’s what I know about smart people: as much as as they might know in their specialty, you move one step away from that specialty and they’re just another relatively smart amateur.

Neurosurgery is actually a pretty big distance from epidemiology, very different skill sets. I’m sure he had a stats class in grad school, but then I had two stats classes in two grad degrees, and I’m having to work hard to take in all the variables for myself.

so don’t throw his argument away, just give it the appropriate weight—he is not going to be held accountable for being wrong.
 
ndocpjf said:
It's in reference to the two types of antibody isotopes that form during the immune response. IgM are the "short term" antibodies that form in response to initial infection and IgG are the antibodies that develop later and provide "long term" immunity.
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Thanks. So when they check, do they test for IgG and IgM? Coincidentally, I worked at Hyland Labs in Costa Mesa (big black marble building at Harbor and the "5" 100 years ago and manufactured test kits for those antigens.
 
I’ve written at least a half dozen replies to this thread, but deleted them all... Mikie would have banned me for a few. :whistling: :p

But I’m going with this one...

Today the death count from Covid passed the death count for the entire Vietnam war. The first American casualty was in 1956. The withdrawal was in 1975... let’s call it roughly 220 months of conflict.

The first American casualty from Covid was early February. That will likely change... But let’s call it 3 months. Hmmm... 3 versus 220.

You can also throw in the flu as some love to do. The flu deaths are spread out over most of the year. If one believes health statistics... some won’t, because they choose not to. Covid matched it in 3 months, and that’s with far less human interaction.

But... Still some will point to the big numbers, and say, “See! It’s the same as the flu in a year!”

Drinking bleach has never seemed so attractive...
 
I'm gonna have to say that Vietnam has zero correlation to either the flu or COVID-19. War (or even a police action) isn't really relevant to a viral outbreak except insofar as it affects the armies involved. Close quarters can cause more casualties than battle, although not nearly so much these days as it once was.

What seems to be in flux is the total number of cases, which is currently unknown but from all accounts will be somewhere around 50 times higher than originally suspected and as currently tested. IF it turns out that we have 100 million cases worldwide, and not the currently confirmed 2 million, then the mortality rate isn't very different than the flu.

Time will tell. I believe we will ultimately regret what we've done. Let's hope we can learn from it.
 
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If we weren’t already too damned smart (or dumb) for our own good, this thing would have erased a considerable chunk of the global population over the next decade or so.

On that thought, it would seem that we have become capable of altering the natural course of humanity where it’s existence on this planet is concerned.
 
SnakeCharmer said:
it would seem that we have become capable of altering the natural course of humanity where it’s existence on this planet is concerned.
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Human evolution essentially ceased upon the discovery/invention of chloroquine and penicillin and the like, and their derivatives. Throw in the ability to splice and alter genes and it's even more true.

We protect and succor those who would, in the absence of such, not be viable and would not pass on their genes. Consider myopia, which could have fatal consequences in less "civilized" times but today is irrelevant. To survival and genetic propagation, that is. Birth control glasses may still be a bar.

Go ahead and howl. This is nothing more than a statement of fact and not a moral judgment.
 
Runs with Scissors said:
I'm gonna have to say that Vietnam has zero correlation to either the flu or COVID-19. War (or even a police action) isn't really relevant to a viral outbreak except insofar as it affects the armies involved. Close quarters can cause more casualties than battle, although not nearly so much these days as it once was.

What seems to be in flux is the total number of cases, which is currently unknown, but from all accounts will be somewhere around 50 times higher than originally suspected and as currently tested. IF it turns out that we have 100 million cases worldwide, and not the currently confirmed 2 million, then the mortality rate isn't very different than the flu.

Time will tell. I believe we will ultimately regret what we've done. Let's hope we can learn from it.
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Not sure where I drew a correlation other than the numbers... It is only a benchmark of the dead to put numbers in perspective. Death totals versus time and population are more important than mortality rate, as far as I'm concerned. When we hit the Civil War totals, I'll mention it again. Hopefully that's a few years down the road. There will be a disclaimer for the literal thinkers, though. :rolleyes:

I did mention the flu, because it's been thrown around in this thread oft in yearly amounts. We're at 1/4 the time, with a minute fraction of the potential human interactions that are required to transmit disease- social distancing. I'm no math wizard, but would we want to see that same rate or more (58,000/ 3 months) continue for a year? I shared a WSJ article a few pages back that had a great argument on that topic.

I honestly can not fathom the fixation on the mortality rate by a few in this thread. And ignoring the death toll, time involved, less potential for disease transmission with social distancing, ER numbers in hot spots, nursing home fatality numbers, and a boatload of others. Help me understand.

I'm glad my cousin (ER nurse) retired two months before this hit... And she ignored Governor Cuomo's request to come back.
 
Runs with Scissors said:
Human evolution essentially ceased upon the discovery/invention of chloroquine and penicillin and the like, and their derivatives. Throw in the ability to splice and alter genes and it's even more true.

We protect and succor those who would, in the absence of such, not be viable and would not pass on their genes. Consider myopia, which could have fatal consequences in less "civilized" times but today is irrelevant. To survival and genetic propagation, that is. Birth control glasses may still be a bar.

Go ahead and howl. This is nothing more than a statement of fact and not a moral judgment.
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And bleach!
 
Faust29 said:
Not sure where I drew a correlation other than the numbers... It is only a benchmark of the dead to put numbers in perspective. Death totals versus time and population are more important than mortality rate, as far as I'm concerned.
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It's a benchmark that doesn't equate to the viral mortality rate. Two very different and not comparable sources of death, to put it bluntly.

During the Vietnam era (August 1964 to May 1975) 9,087,000 people served in the US military. 58,000 died in combat-related circumstances. This equates to a 0.6% mortality rate. This was due to bullets, bombs, mortars, punji sticks, torture, etc.

Mortality rates must be compared like to like. Flu to COVID 19 are like to like. War to virus rates are not. That was my point.
 
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Runs with Scissors said:
It's a benchmark that doesn't equate to the viral mortality rate. Two very different and not comparable sources of death, to put it bluntly.

During the Vietnam era (August 1964 to May 1975) 9,087,000 people served in the US military. 58,000 died in combat-related circumstances. This equates to a 0.6% mortality rate. This was due to bullets, bombs, mortars, punji sticks, torture, etc.

Mortality rates must be compared like to like. Flu to COVID 19 are like to like. War to virus rates are not. That was my point.
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To put it bluntly, you’re missing the point. Completely and irrevocably. At no time did I do anything other than compare death numbers for historically significant events. Any inference past that is if your own creation.

Thankfully, we have news sources that are also capable of non literal thinking. The same comparison was in several today... I’ve actually been waiting for it. There must be other crazies like me who have been watching the total and comparing it to other significant events in history.

Notice I didn’t say other human conflicts.
 
So...
We are on Page 45 of the great discussion and debate related to the unprecedented Corona Virus... COVID-19... CV-19...
I am so glad you all have cleared this up for me...
I was going to create a short video to some up all this great wisdom here, but Miss Cathy came across a vid that does a way better job than I ever could.

So here is the best representation and summation...

Thank you! And good day. I SAID GOOD DAY!
;)
 
Faust29 said:
To put it bluntly, you’re missing the point. Completely and irrevocably. At no time did I do anything other than compare death numbers for historically significant events. Any inference past that is if your own creation.

Thankfully, we have news sources that are also capable of non literal thinking. The same comparison was in several today... I’ve actually been waiting for it. There must be other crazies like me who have been watching the total and comparing it to other significant events in history.

Notice I didn’t say other human conflicts.
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I got your point. Really. The two numbers match.

They just don't have any relation to each other.
 
Mikie said:
So...
We are on Page 45 of the great discussion and debate related to the unprecedented Corona Virus... COVID-19... CV-19...
I am so glad you all have cleared this up for me...
I was going to create a short video to some up all this great wisdom here, but Miss Cathy came across a vid that does a way better job than I ever could.

So here is the best representation and summation...

Thank you! And good day. I SAID GOOD DAY!
;)
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Why does she look so suprised?
 
Mikie said:
So...
We are on Page 45 of the great discussion and debate related to the unprecedented Corona Virus... COVID-19... CV-19...
I am so glad you all have cleared this up for me...
I was going to create a short video to some up all this great wisdom here, but Miss Cathy came across a vid that does a way better job than I ever could.

So here is the best representation and summation...

Thank you! And good day. I SAID GOOD DAY!
;)
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Is she on meth or cocaine or both?! I see people acting exactly like that in the Yucca Valley area when I go into town except that they have blackened/rotting teeth, and they are usually very skinny. So, pretty much exactly the same way, but a little bit different. But not different enough so that you wouldn't think that they are not the same.
 
DangerDirtyD said:
Oh man! I saw that Zilla posted on here and I got all excited! All excited I got that Zilla was gonna make a comment with political undertones...and all I got was a whimsical, albeit nonpartisan, inquiry.
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Sorry to let you down. I don't talk politics in public forums.....it just leads to infighting. You can already see it from some of the posts in this thread.

I put politics right up there with religion....I have my opinions, but I'll keep them to myself.
 
SnakeCharmer said:
Is she on meth or cocaine or both?! I see people acting exactly like that in the Yucca Valley area when I go into town except that they have blackened/rotting teeth, and they are usually very skinny. So, pretty much exactly the same way, but a little bit different. But not different enough so that you wouldn't think that they are not the same.
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You sound just like her. Do you work in media? ;)
 
I guess if we are going to talk numbers and death... Gee what a happy thought! :thumbsup:
Around 56 Million abortions are performed each year, and we can choose to stop that.
Approximately 2.8 million people die from obesity each year, yet we get excited about a new flavor of Doritos.
480,000 deaths from smoking each year in the US alone. Between 1964 and 2014, 2.5 million people died from exposure to secondhand smoke.
56,000 deaths each year from the Flu in the USA.

None of this stuff shut down our country. None of you guys are going to get me excited about any of this. I wash my hands, I use hand sanitizer, I wear surgical gloves at the gas station, I go to work, I come home, I snort some Tailwind, I ride my bike. :thumbsup:

tick said:
Ummm, the proprietor of an Internet forum certainly profits from 45 pages of clicks and free content....

I’m on to your shenanigans Mikie. Admit it, Covid was your idea.
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All I want to know, is... how did you find out? :eek:
 
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