Unoffically Official 2017 VQ and CC Thread

CC is not as hard as it might look at first glance.....


Any rider who currently ride on a regular base, and is willing to train will be able to complete it.
All it takes is the commitment to ride 6+hr per week and a few rides on the actual course to familiarize yourself with it.


The 6+ hours could be split between road bike, mountain bike, and even a stationary bike.

A spin class (one or two per week) is one way of getting same saddle time during the winter months.


A training plan with some coaching and intermediate events would be great why to get ready. However consistent riding and injury avoidance are the key to finishing CC.







VQ on the other hand......is a real PITA.
 
Cornholio said:
Thanks for that informative post, @bvader! I have ridden Holy Jim on my HT, but only the lower part and not after 30+ miles and 8k of climbing. I am thinking that I am going to see how some longer rides go on my RIP and decide if I want to go for it on my HT which will need work/parts.
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Here's my 2 cents (adjusted for inflation):

I come from a roadie background so I like hardtails for their climbing efficiency, but the descents on this course are fairly rough. Because of that, and because it's more of an event than race for most riders, I'd give serious consideration to riding full suspension. You'll get less beat-up and increase your margin of error of the downhills. One crash averted is going to make up for any time gained on those climbs with a hardtail, and could save the day depending on whether, or how severely, you get hurt.

As for tires.. It's my understanding there have been lots of sidewall tears on the Motorway due to light tires and sharp rocks. It can happen on the Main Divide or Holy Jim as well. Tire failure is something to be prepared for, but avoided if possible. Top contenders really have to blur the lines between speed and durability, and sometimes pay the price. For non-podium riders, a few minutes plus or minus isn't going to threaten your sponsorship. My advice is to ride your first event on decent tires with good sidewalls, and take it a little easier through the rocks. Save the PR's for repeat performances.
 
kioti said:
Here's my 2 cents (adjusted for inflation):

I come from a roadie background so I like hardtails for their climbing efficiency, but the descents on this course are fairly rough. Because of that, and because it's more of an event than race for most riders, I'd give serious consideration to riding full suspension. You'll get less beat-up and increase your margin of error of the downhills. One crash averted is going to make up for any time gained on those climbs with a hardtail, and could save the day depending on whether, or how severely, you get hurt.

As for tires.. It's my understanding there have been lots of sidewall tears on the Motorway due to light tires and sharp rocks. It can happen on the Main Divide or Holy Jim as well. Tire failure is something to be prepared for, but avoided if possible. Top contenders really have to blur the lines between speed and durability, and sometimes pay the price. For non-podium riders, a few minutes plus or minus isn't going to threaten your sponsorship. My advice is to ride your first event on decent tires with good sidewalls, and take it a little easier through the rocks. Save the PR's for repeat performances.
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Kioti's point got me thinking about my own riding... Most guys on here live for the downs. I really don't... And I certainly won't on VQ day. My main concern is staying in shape and having fun, which I'm able to do going up, down, or on level ground. I have a few long rides under my belt now, mostly on the single speed. On long rides, I tend to think of the downs as recovery time, not hammer time. I'm fine if it takes me a minute or three longer to get to the bottom of Motorway. That will be more time that I have to get the heart rate back under control, listen to my breathing, and give the climbing muscles a break. It also gives me a chance to recenter, check focus, and make sure everything is still working on bike and body.

Just a thought...
 
Faust29 said:
Kioti's point got me thinking about my own riding... Most guys on here live for the downs. I really don't... And I certainly won't on VQ day. My main concern is staying in shape and having fun, which I'm able to do going up, down, or on level ground. I have a few long rides under my belt now, mostly on the single speed. On long rides, I tend to think of the downs as recovery time, not hammer time. I'm fine if it takes me a minute or three longer to get to the bottom of Motorway. That will be more time that I have to get the heart rate back under control, listen to my breathing, and give the climbing muscles a break. It also gives me a chance to recenter, check focus, and make sure everything is still working on bike and body.

Just a thought...
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This thinking is spot on.....cause this is how mtn biking is being marketed to everyone. You hear it all the the time. "why don't they televise XC riding"? Most people think it is boring....even though it is the way that 90% of us ride.


This may ruffle some feathers but riding DH is easy....whether you are good at it or not, getting from the top to the bottom while using gravity. The more you do it, the better you get at it. I'm not talking about riding down Telonics, or Stairsteps, or Rattlesnake or any WC race course...I'm talking the DH's that most of us ride on a regular basis.

Climbing on the other hand takes work...you have to put in the effort and the work to get better at it(unless you cheat and ride an ebike).

I know I am first and foremost a climber....I don't need a spectacular DH payoff at the top of a climb. While it is fun, and I do enjoy it....I am quite content with cleaning big climbs.

We have all heard it..."that's a lot of climbing for no return". I had this come up just last weekend on the Holy Jim / Trabuco ride. One rider referred to the ride as 18 miles of up with no payoff. WTF? o_O Most tolerate the ups to get to the downs....there is nothing wrong with that(i used to be one of them).

Endurance events like this have some DH involved....but it is definitely a climbing riders game. So put your focus there. The better you feel at the tops of the climbs, the more energy you will have for the DH's. Rarely do I hear "i am gonna go out and session some DH's to prep for VQ".

Sorry for the rant. :thumbsup:
 
Trabuco after the leaves have fallen, with a nice cushion of a trail over the shale, and after the holy jim climbing is probably my favorite downhill in all of OC. chutes, rattlesnake, all good, but for all time biking experience... I'll take the Santa Ana's .. glad that its local enough to ride when ever I want... without the climbs the downs just won't be the same...

Holy Jim up and Trabuco down... no payoff?? umm...

Now who's getting ready for CC and VQ? Oh never mind its too hot...
 
mtnbikej said:
Most tolerate the ups to get to the downs....there is nothing wrong with that(i used to be one of them).
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Gotta agree about the virtues of climbing because I like endorphins as much as adrenalin. :)

I also like @Faust29's concept of cruising the descents. It seems like a good strategy for these events. Relax and stay out-of-trouble; then settle back into a good rhythm ASAP on the next climb. For me that's when my pedal revs correspond to my breathing--usually about one full breathing cycle for 3 complete pedal revolutions for sustained aerobic output.
 
HBkites said:
CC is not as hard as it might look at first glance.....


Any rider who currently ride on a regular base, and is willing to train will be able to complete it.
All it takes is the commitment to ride 6+hr per week and a few rides on the actual course to familiarize yourself with it.


The 6+ hours could be split between road bike, mountain bike, and even a stationary bike.

A spin class (one or two per week) is one way of getting same saddle time during the winter months.


A training plan with some coaching and intermediate events would be great why to get ready. However consistent riding and injury avoidance are the key to finishing CC.







VQ on the other hand......is a real PITA.
Click to expand...

Or, CC is that hard.
I tried it once. I am a real slow climber and got DNF'd at 4 Corners. I was OK with it at the time; I didn't see going up to the peak at that point.
I thought I had trained a lot in the Santa Ana's that winter, but the basics of Watt/kg cannot be ignored.
I won't try again until I drop a lot of kgs.
 
Rumpled said:
Or, CC is that hard.
I tried it once. I am a real slow climber and got DNF'd at 4 Corners. I was OK with it at the time; I didn't see going up to the peak at that point.
I thought I had trained a lot in the Santa Ana's that winter, but the basics of Watt/kg cannot be ignored.
I won't try again until I drop a lot of kgs.
Click to expand...

I ain't no Tinker myself when it comes to climbs so this post got me thinking even more about what is ahead to get ready. I weigh just over 200lbs, thinking 185 is the max I should be at come April. Crap, I love beer. :thumbsdown:
 
Cornholio said:
I ain't no Tinker myself when it comes to climbs so this post got me thinking even more about what is ahead to get ready. I weigh just over 200lbs, thinking 185 is the max I should be at come April. Crap, I love beer. :thumbsdown:
Click to expand...

Weight is obviously important, but it's more than possible to be a decent climber if you tip the scale a little heavy... When I lost all my weight (@100 lbs), I bottomed out at 190. The wife didn't care for that weight, so I went back up to 205 and worked on adding some muscle. I've stayed between 205 and 210 since then. I am a much stronger climber now than when I was 15 pounds lighter. I'm heavy for a climber... And I'm not claiming to be Tinker, but I think the secret to climbing is... Drum roll please... More climbing! Push past your present comfort level.

I, personally, think there are two ways to go about getting stronger at climbing, and I have been known to do both. Climb more at the same pace you are used to. You'll get used to the longer distances. Or... Work on your normal climbs, but push the pace, and do them repeatedly. Short intervals will yield quick results, and burn more calories in a shorter time... Great when you don't have a lot of time to ride, but want a workout. For me, the last little push to the top of Vista in O'Neill is the perfect spot. It's only a couple hundred feet long, but it's steep, and it gets the heart rate way up. When I ran gears, I would climb it several times in a row in a harder gear each time. I got to the point that the heart rate would recover to an acceptable level by the time I got back to the bottom for the next run.
 
With this news VQ became more exclusive then ever......

"The Counting Coup event has filled up to the 175 limit. Due the fact that there seems to be more demand for the Counting Coup we have decided to add 50 positions to that race and subtract 50 from the Vision Quest. Per our Forest Service permit we can have a maximum of 350 participants for both events. This will also make it easier on the support staff since the Vision Quest is much harder to support.

With the changes the Vision Quest will now have a limit of 125 riders and the Counting Coup 225. Per those new numbers we now have 32 spots left in the Vision Quest and 50 in the Counting Coup. "
 
HBkites said:
With this news VQ became more exclusive then ever......

"The Counting Coup event has filled up to the 175 limit. Due the fact that there seems to be more demand for the Counting Coup we have decided to add 50 positions to that race and subtract 50 from the Vision Quest. Per our Forest Service permit we can have a maximum of 350 participants for both events. This will also make it easier on the support staff since the Vision Quest is much harder to support.

With the changes the Vision Quest will now have a limit of 125 riders and the Counting Coup 225. Per those new numbers we now have 32 spots left in the Vision Quest and 50 in the Counting Coup. "
Click to expand...


Translation... Only the fast guys signed up for the big ride, so Faust is guaranteed DFL! :p
 
Faust29 said:
Kioti's point got me thinking about my own riding... Most guys on here live for the downs...
Click to expand...

I completely disagree. I would say that most IMTB regulars LIVE for the ups and tolerate or are amused by the downs. Look at the climbing numbers. Look at the trail selections. Look at the bikes that our most prolific posters ride. Look at the stats that are valued (vertical feet climbed, followed by distance and calories burned, not PRs on downs). This is not a forum of downhillers. I am probably the only prolific poster on IMTB who rides for the descents, yet even I am not a true downhiller - more of an "Enduro-ist."
 
herzalot said:
I completely disagree. I would say that most IMTB regulars LIVE for the ups and tolerate or are amused by the downs. Look at the climbing numbers. Look at the trail selections. Look at the bikes that our most prolific posters ride. Look at the stats that are valued (vertical feet climbed, followed by distance and calories burned, not PRs on downs). This is not a forum of downhillers. I am probably the only prolific poster on IMTB who rides for the descents, yet even I am not a true downhiller - more of an "Enduro-ist."
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You are correct... But I meant downhill in more of a "Thank God I'm not pedaling" way, and not what we usually call DH. That first definition of downhill has quite a few more adherents on here than the second.
 
I'm sticking with my assessment that very few of IMTBs frequent posters "live for the downs."

So allow me to have a little fun with this.

I would say @doublewide @sir crashalot, myself and maybe @Cougar qualify as those who must have fun descents in a ride to make it worthwhile, and who routinely seek out challenging downhills, or may spend a day riding lifts or shuttling - and own goggles and a true full-face helmet. @knucklebuster may fit in that category as well. @StrandLeper may be the rider who tackles the most challenging downs most frequently, but he is a fitness freak and is riding his mid-travel 29er to rack up miles more than to experience the great descents. Besides, he doesn't wear a visor, and that DQs him right there. I know that @mike rides a LOT of steeeeep sketchy descents, but based on his equipment and ride choices, I would presume that is not his primary motivation for riding. @Mikie @Tom the Bomb @hill^billy @Voodoo Tom @rossage and a bunch of others are great descenders, but seek out long days in the saddle with lots of climbing too - so maybe equally motivated by climbing and descending - but not necessarily "living for the downs." @Mikie swears he will never buy a lift ticket or spend a day in a bike park, so cross him off the "lives for the downs" list. Plus, he wears lycra shorts.

Perhaps a poll is in order. Just not sure how to word it.
Have you ever spent a day shuttling or riding lifts just to concentrate on riding down fun trails?
Do you own a full-face helmet, body armor and goggles?
If someone took your chain off, would you still ride?

Or maybe it's the opposite question:
Have you ever participated in a distance event such as Vision Quest or Counting Coup?
Do you own and frequently ride a hardtail?
Do you own and frequently wear lycra shorts?

Or maybe it's the direct route, and not equipment:
I only ride park (or shuttle).
I suffer the ups to enjoy the downs.
I have to have at least one downhill trail with drops, berms, kickers, rock gardens and natural and/or man-made features on every ride.
I ride for the adventure and think nothing of 30-50+ miles and multiple days in a row on the same ride.
I seek out rides with long climbs and I am motivated to see how much vertical I can climb in a day.
I have descended Harding, Maple Springs, Skyline or Black Star fireroads on purpose.

Ahh well, fun to speculate. The "why do you ride" question has been asked and debated probably far too much. It is interesting that some people cannot accept another person's motivation for riding. I accept it. I don't understand it, but I accept and admire it.

Derail over. Please commence to signing up to pay money to suffer publicly.
 
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herzalot said:
I'm sticking with my assessment that very few of IMTBs frequent posters "live for the downs."

Perhaps a poll is in order. Just not sure how to word it.
Have you ever spent a day shuttling or riding lifts just to concentrate on riding down fun trails?
Do you own a full-face helmet, body armor and goggles?
If someone took your chain off, would you still ride?

Or maybe it's the opposite question:
Have you ever participated in a distance event such as Vision Quest or Counting Coup?
Do you own and frequently ride a hardtail?
Do you own and frequently wear lycra shorts?
Click to expand...

No.
No.
How? Pedals won't work.

Yes, but not those. Yet.
Yes. Is there any other kind?
Yes. On both mtb and road bike.

:cool:
 
herzalot said:
I'm sticking with my assessment that very few of IMTBs frequent posters "live for the downs."

So allow me to have a little fun with this.

I would say @doublewide @sir crashalot, myself and maybe @Cougar qualify as those who must have fun descents in a ride to make it worthwhile, and who routinely seek out challenging downhills, or may spend a day riding lifts or shuttling - and own goggles and a true full-face helmet. @knucklebuster may fit in that category as well. @StrandLeper may be the rider who tackles the most challenging downs most frequently, but he is a fitness freak and is riding his mid-travel 29er to rack up miles more than to experience the great descents. Besides, he doesn't wear a visor, and that DQs him right there. I know that @mike rides a LOT of steeeeep sketchy descents, but based on his equipment and ride choices, I would presume that is not his primary motivation for riding. @Mikie @Tom the Bomb @hill^billy @Voodoo Tom @rossage and a bunch of others are great descenders, but seek out long days in the saddle with lots of climbing too - so maybe equally motivated by climbing and descending - but not necessarily "living for the downs." @Mikie swears he will never buy a lift ticket or spend a day in a bike park, so cross him off the "lives for the downs" list. Plus, he wears lycra shorts.

Perhaps a poll is in order. Just not sure how to word it.
Have you ever spent a day shuttling or riding lifts just to concentrate on riding down fun trails?
Do you own a full-face helmet, body armor and goggles?
If someone took your chain off, would you still ride?

Or maybe it's the opposite question:
Have you ever participated in a distance event such as Vision Quest or Counting Coup?
Do you own and frequently ride a hardtail?
Do you own and frequently wear lycra shorts?

Or maybe it's the direct route, and not equipment:
I only ride park (or shuttle).
I suffer the ups to enjoy the downs.
I have to have at least one downhill trail with drops, berms, kickers, rock gardens and natural and/or man-made features on every ride.
I ride for the adventure and think nothing of 30-50+ miles and multiple days in a row on the same ride.
I seek out rides with long climbs and I am motivated to see how much vertical I can climb in a day.
I have descended Harding, Maple Springs, Skyline or Black Star fireroads on purpose.

Ahh well, fun to speculate. The "why do you ride" question has been asked and debated probably far too much. It is interesting that some people cannot accept another person's motivation for riding. I accept it. I don't understand it, but I accept and admire it.

Derail over. Please commence to signing up to pay money to suffer publicly.
Click to expand...
Climbing to the moon feels good and is fun if it's safe and the equipment agrees with the task at hand. Descending on challenging singletrack is the most preferred, along with descending on fireroad WITH 4 or 5 other capable riders who can jostle for position and make passes. I own Lycra, an MTB Hardtail, and carry tampons in my saddlebag (per my wife's request). I also own a true full face, goggles, gloves with knuckle bash guards, and have the MRIs to prove shuttle park riding is not my favorite. My point is I'll ride whatever, even the single track gutters to the nearest Aldi for some discount groceries. Some rides are better than others, by far even, but the company makes the day worthwhile, and a spin on a mellow fireroad chit chatting with friends beats the same conversation on a couch or over the phone. @herzalot, I feel left out of your thoughtful assessment. May I nominate myself for one of the safe riders of the club?
 
herzalot said:
I'm sticking with my assessment that very few of IMTBs frequent posters "live for the downs."

So allow me to have a little fun with this.

I would say @doublewide @sir crashalot, myself and maybe @Cougar qualify as those who must have fun descents in a ride to make it worthwhile, and who routinely seek out challenging downhills, or may spend a day riding lifts or shuttling - and own goggles and a true full-face helmet. @knucklebuster may fit in that category as well. @StrandLeper may be the rider who tackles the most challenging downs most frequently, but he is a fitness freak and is riding his mid-travel 29er to rack up miles more than to experience the great descents. Besides, he doesn't wear a visor, and that DQs him right there. I know that @mike rides a LOT of steeeeep sketchy descents, but based on his equipment and ride choices, I would presume that is not his primary motivation for riding. @Mikie @Tom the Bomb @hill^billy @Voodoo Tom @rossage and a bunch of others are great descenders, but seek out long days in the saddle with lots of climbing too - so maybe equally motivated by climbing and descending - but not necessarily "living for the downs." @Mikie swears he will never buy a lift ticket or spend a day in a bike park, so cross him off the "lives for the downs" list. Plus, he wears lycra shorts.

Perhaps a poll is in order. Just not sure how to word it.
Have you ever spent a day shuttling or riding lifts just to concentrate on riding down fun trails?
Do you own a full-face helmet, body armor and goggles?
If someone took your chain off, would you still ride?

Or maybe it's the opposite question:
Have you ever participated in a distance event such as Vision Quest or Counting Coup?
Do you own and frequently ride a hardtail?
Do you own and frequently wear lycra shorts?

Or maybe it's the direct route, and not equipment:
I only ride park (or shuttle).
I suffer the ups to enjoy the downs.
I have to have at least one downhill trail with drops, berms, kickers, rock gardens and natural and/or man-made features on every ride.
I ride for the adventure and think nothing of 30-50+ miles and multiple days in a row on the same ride.
I seek out rides with long climbs and I am motivated to see how much vertical I can climb in a day.
I have descended Harding, Maple Springs, Skyline or Black Star fireroads on purpose.

Ahh well, fun to speculate. The "why do you ride" question has been asked and debated probably far too much. It is interesting that some people cannot accept another person's motivation for riding. I accept it. I don't understand it, but I accept and admire it.

Derail over. Please commence to signing up to pay money to suffer publicly.
Click to expand...

Cool stuff. Maybe new thread time to avoid massive derail? In the hopes of that, I'll give some thoughts..

I'm with @DangerDirtyD on riding whatever, with safety in mind, but probably wouldn't do it at all without a solid element of risk.

Chain free?
One of my favorite little descents used to be Cactus in Whiting before the fire. It was a perfect place to practice the "no-chain" concept. There were 2 little climbs that were fun challenges to roll up and over without pedaling. You had to carry your speed or you'd come up short. Then there was a straight trough that was a challenge to clean without un-cleating to dab the sides; followed by a rocky, rutted abandoned dirt road section. No chain needed; straightforward and raw.

I've ridden Bell Ridge a few times and didn't need a chain there either, especially on the "descent." For me, it was either coasting downhill on steep ST, or carrying the bike up the HAB's (with some downhill HAB'ing thrown in, which I could do without). Other instances of not needing a chain include lots of fire road descents, where I'd only pedal to get back up to speed quicker, or climb a short mid-descent hill like on Black Star or Harding.

Want to categorize me?
At heart, I'm a cross country rider, which means exploration and adventure. I come at it from a lifetime of backpacking, trail running and peak bagging , road riding and touring, ski area and backcountry skiing and touring. Mountain biking draws from all those activities.

Mostly I just want to ride as fast as I can, up and down, in natural places.
 
He was going to but....... he likes the "ups and downs"

We all know CC is all about the ups.





Enough talking about others. Let's focus on me :-0.
With 4+ month to go who has started training?

My current plan is to cruise through the rest of the year (4-6 hrs. per week), before focusing on building up endurance starting in January.
The main "issue" I have is a 10 day vacation at the end of December. Originally I planed to get back on my SS asap, but a new mechanical issue might delay that.

So, who the "men with a plan"?
What's your off season training approach?
 
HBkites said:
He was going to but....... he likes the "ups and downs"

We all know CC is all about the ups.





Enough talking about others. Let's focus on me :-0.
With 4+ month to go who has started training?

My current plan is to cruise through the rest of the year (4-6 hrs. per week), before focusing on building up endurance starting in January.
The main "issue" I have is a 10 day vacation at the end of December. Originally I planed to get back on my SS asap, but a new mechanical issue might delay that.

So, who the "men with a plan"?
What's your off season training approach?
Click to expand...


If your plan to ride the SS, and you don't ride it regularly....get back on it ASAP.

I no longer have an on/off season....it is just all seasons.

If you have a decent base, you should have no trouble getting in shape in 3 months. Just really depends on what your goals/priorities are.

I'd do a couple of rides a during the week if you could, them plan on some long rides on the weekends. Get used to pushing the SS uphill.

Don't burn yourself out B*/MW & Maple/MW. Mix in some others....Harding, Skyline, Coal Cyn, Indian Truck Trail. Some good loops can be made for these. If you want some suggestions....let me know.

For me personally...I like to be prepared to the point where I am doing 50 mile rides with little to no trouble. Same with possibly shorter rides with 8000'+ elevation.

Keep in mind that 3 miles/1000' of the 54/11,500' are on the HAB. So realistically you are looking at 50/10,000'.

I'm sure I will think of more later.
 
My current plan is to ride the SS only during the training.
I think is it a good tool to build power, and do "natural" interval.
I'm going to do my first VQ with gears.
 
Sounds fun. I think I will just do the VQ route sometime on my own. The trial that I finished today took its toll on my fitness. But in 3 weeks or so, I should be back to where I was. Funny you should mention my Pivot @herzalot as I've Been riding my Bronson at super low tire pressure for the few rides that I have done lately -- Man the bike is playful! Enjoying a (teeny) bit of airtime these days--can't wait until I have the confidence to air it out on stairs or 5 Oaks, etc. I will never ride a lift (ski or bike) but I LOVE the downs now that I am learning how to descend. I just like to ride my bike. :)
 
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