Two New Santa Cruz Bikes...

Faust29 said:
I disagree. I want everyone on the board to buy the burliest 6+" travel bike they can. That way, the mountains will stay crowd free. :thumbsup: :p
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Ha. Not sure it would change where people go that much. But maybe they wouldn't tire themselves out so much pushing 160mm travel around when they could get by just as well with much less.

But who am I kidding. You could say the same thing about the bros who drive big lifted trucks but never go further off road than places like Trabuco wash road.
 
evdog said:
I think a lot of people in Socal would be better off with a 100mm or 120mm bike if they would be honest with themselves about the riding they actually do.

These new ones from SC and Intense look incredibly fun.
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29 inch wheels led me away from suspension, with their awesome roll-over ability combined with the larger wheel's momentum.
So even after several years of riding hardtail only, these new generation of capable "short" travel 29ers have been catching my eye.
One problem is the notion that,
"Damn! This trail is great with 100mm travel. I bet it would be more awesome with 120 or even 140mm. Yeah!"
 
evdog said:
I think a lot of people in Socal would be better off with a 100mm or 120mm bike if they would be honest with themselves about the riding they actually do.
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This statement, again?

Define better off. I am sure there are many on this forum who would say I would be "better off" with a lighter, steeper bike with less travel and bigger wheels. To them I would say, I would rather my bike helps me go 3 seconds faster on a 5 min DH than 5 mins faster on a 20 minute climb. If I bought a bike to compensate for my weaknesses, I wouldn't want to ride it. I am "better off" with a bike that makes me smile and makes me want to ride.

Are there a lot of people over-biked for the riding they choose to do? Absolutely. And for some, maybe having a Nomad, Reign, Firebird or Capra is just a case of "mine is bigger than yours" like the imitation trophy trucks that never see dirt. All about "look at me - I'm a badass!" For others, maybe it's just more fun.

Self defensive rant over.
 
Faust29 said:
I disagree. I want everyone on the board to buy the burliest 6+" travel bike they can. That way, the mountains will stay crowd free. :thumbsup: :p
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I think he has a point there, if by mountains, Steve is referring to the Main Divide and all of its tributaries. Most of the "big bike" Enduro Bros (a classification to which I probably belong) won't want to spend a lot of time climbing fire-roads when there are more entertaining options available.

Please note - @mike is the exception to most of this rhetoric. He's a badass up and down the trail and regularly rides the most "entertaining" trails in the Santa Anas - on his 6" travel, 29" wheeled monster truck.
 
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herzalot said:
I think he has a point there, if by mountains, Steve is referring to the Main Divide and all of its tributaries. Most of the "big bike" Enduro Bros (a classification to which I probably belong) won't want to spend a lot of time climbing fire-roads when there are more entertaining options available.
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What could be more entertaining than the Santa Ana climbs leading to those gnarly-bitchin' descents (Motorway/San Juan/Trabuco/Holy Jim/et cetera...)? :thumbsup:
 
herzalot said:
This statement, again?

Define better off. I am sure there are many on this forum who would say I would be "better off" with a lighter, steeper bike with less travel and bigger wheels. To them I would say, I would rather my bike helps me go 3 seconds faster on a 5 min DH than 5 mins faster on a 20 minute climb. If I bought a bike to compensate for my weaknesses, I wouldn't want to ride it. I am "better off" with a bike that makes me smile and makes me want to ride.

Are there a lot of people over-biked for the riding they choose to do? Absolutely. And for some, maybe having a Nomad, Reign, Firebird or Capra is just a case of "mine is bigger than yours" like the imitation trophy trucks that never see dirt. All about "look at me - I'm a badass!" For others, maybe it's just more fun.

Self defensive rant over.
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No need to get defensive...I wasn't referring to riders like you who actually make full use of the suspension they ride with. FWIW, every time I've ridden Laguna it's been on my Delirium.

For rides like Santa Anas, SART, Palm Canyon, San Gabes though - and most of my riding - I bring the Mojo3 or the hardtail. While some trails are steep they aren't chunky enough to make the extra travel worth suffering more on the long climbs.

5" travel bikes these days are extremely capable with current tech, modern geometry and all. Same with 100mm travel 29ers.

But I see tons of riders who have minimal technical skill dropping huge coin on longer travel bikes like HD3/Tracer/Nomad/whatever. Then they proceed to pussyfoot around every trivial rock on the trail and look for a ride-around every time the trail gets slightly technical. What I'm saying is they buy way more bike than they need and then end up suffering up all the climbs because they thought all that travel was a good idea. Doesn't make sense to me. Considering the amount of time we spend climbing in Socal a lot of these people would probably be better off with a bike that is actually better at climbing. They'll be perfectly fine on the descents.
 
evdog said:
No need to get defensive...I wasn't referring to riders like you who actually make full use of the suspension they ride with. FWIW, every time I've ridden Laguna it's been on my Delirium.

For rides like Santa Anas, SART, Palm Canyon, San Gabes though - and most of my riding - I bring the Mojo3 or the hardtail. While some trails are steep they aren't chunky enough to make the extra travel worth suffering more on the long climbs.

5" travel bikes these days are extremely capable with current tech, modern geometry and all. Same with 100mm travel 29ers.

But I see tons of riders who have minimal technical skill dropping huge coin on longer travel bikes like HD3/Tracer/Nomad/whatever. Then they proceed to pussyfoot around every trivial rock on the trail and look for a ride-around every time the trail gets slightly technical. What I'm saying is they buy way more bike than they need and then end up suffering up all the climbs because they thought all that travel was a good idea. Doesn't make sense to me. Considering the amount of time we spend climbing in Socal a lot of these people would probably be better off with a bike that is actually better at climbing. They'll be perfectly fine on the descents.
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Agreed on all counts. Plus I do think there is a "badass" factor that comes into play with longer travel - the good ol' SoCal distorted concept of "image" that is such an imbedded part of our existence, that doesn't seem to exist in other parts of the universe where functionality matters far more than image.
 
herzalot said:
I think he has a point there, if by mountains, Steve is referring to the Main Divide and all of its tributaries. Most of the "big bike" Enduro Bros (a classification to which I probably belong) won't want to spend a lot of time climbing fire-roads when there are more entertaining options available.
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I don't know dude....I see your lil buddy Zak is out there quite a bit putting in some big rides with Carl Bauer...as for me, I'm looking forward to getting out there on my 28lb 6" XC/DH bike. :rolleyes:
 
evdog said:
No need to get defensive...I wasn't referring to riders like you who actually make full use of the suspension they ride with. FWIW, every time I've ridden Laguna it's been on my Delirium.

For rides like Santa Anas, SART, Palm Canyon, San Gabes though - and most of my riding - I bring the Mojo3 or the hardtail. While some trails are steep they aren't chunky enough to make the extra travel worth suffering more on the long climbs.

5" travel bikes these days are extremely capable with current tech, modern geometry and all. Same with 100mm travel 29ers.

But I see tons of riders who have minimal technical skill dropping huge coin on longer travel bikes like HD3/Tracer/Nomad/whatever. Then they proceed to pussyfoot around every trivial rock on the trail and look for a ride-around every time the trail gets slightly technical. What I'm saying is they buy way more bike than they need and then end up suffering up all the climbs because they thought all that travel was a good idea. Doesn't make sense to me. Considering the amount of time we spend climbing in Socal a lot of these people would probably be better off with a bike that is actually better at climbing. They'll be perfectly fine on the descents.
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What I find infuriating is all the long-travel riders I see on my local trails that then use that 6 inches of travel to create P-lines around the rocks even a hardtail could roll over.
Example: El Prieto. What used to be a techy, ledgy, rock-filled, singletrack is now more than 6 FEET wide in spots with multiple lines around obstacles.
You bought the bike, now grow a pair and learn how to ride it.
If you need to know how to ride some San Gabes rocks, ride with @Luis. He takes his Enduro over everything-including other riders!
 
mtnbikej said:
Actually you bump the fork up to 120 and it slacks it out to 68*.

They intend on the Bkut being the XC race machine. Slacking it out to much would make it more Trail than Race.

And honestly, at 68* it would still be a very capable rig.

The TB will stay relevant because of the 27.5+/29 options and the 130mm forks. Plus it is much more trail oriented.
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It's starting to look like "Trail" HTAs are the new "Race" HTAs. I believe that I have seen other Bike companies following the trend, too. 68 HTA still climbs remarkably well and it is noticeably more confident going downhill than old-school 70 HTA so this is going lower the course finish times, IMO.
 
rossage said:
What I find infuriating is all the long-travel riders I see on my local trails that then use that 6 inches of travel to create P-lines around the rocks even a hardtail could roll over.
Example: El Prieto. What used to be a techy, ledgy, rock-filled, singletrack is now more than 6 FEET wide in spots with multiple lines around obstacles.
You bought the bike, now grow a pair and learn how to ride it.
If you need to know how to ride some San Gabes rocks, ride with @Luis. He takes his Enduro over everything-including other riders!
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Not sure that I agree completely with you on this. Even the go around lines (on El P) are not exactly easy. I like the idea of having line options through the tech sections, especially if one is planning to climb up and do the trail a second time in a row.

VARIETY IS THE SPICE OF LIFE...
 
SnakeCharmer said:
Not sure that I agree completely with you on this. Even the go around lines (on El P) are not exactly easy. I like the idea of having line options through the tech sections, especially if one is planning to climb up and do the trail a second time in a row.

VARIETY IS THE SPICE OF LIFE...
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Don't have to agree. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even when they are wrong...
I would say that you should go up and ride the trail the second time without taking the P-lines. You might learn some skills if you're not careful.;)
I purposely take the most difficult lines I can find in order to work on my skills and handling. I can clean El P on a rigid as easily as someone on a fully and I look, slack-jawed at the brake-dragging around rocks and desperation skids around obstacles.

I still like the new Blur, and the new Epic, and my new hardtail!
 
evdog said:
No need to get defensive...I wasn't referring to riders like you who actually make full use of the suspension they ride with. FWIW, every time I've ridden Laguna it's been on my Delirium.

For rides like Santa Anas, SART, Palm Canyon, San Gabes though - and most of my riding - I bring the Mojo3 or the hardtail. While some trails are steep they aren't chunky enough to make the extra travel worth suffering more on the long climbs.

5" travel bikes these days are extremely capable with current tech, modern geometry and all. Same with 100mm travel 29ers.

But I see tons of riders who have minimal technical skill dropping huge coin on longer travel bikes like HD3/Tracer/Nomad/whatever. Then they proceed to pussyfoot around every trivial rock on the trail and look for a ride-around every time the trail gets slightly technical. What I'm saying is they buy way more bike than they need and then end up suffering up all the climbs because they thought all that travel was a good idea. Doesn't make sense to me. Considering the amount of time we spend climbing in Socal a lot of these people would probably be better off with a bike that is actually better at climbing. They'll be perfectly fine on the descents.
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Evdog gets 100 likes for stating that well... :thumbsup:

herzalot said:
Agreed on all counts. Plus I do think there is a "badass" factor that comes into play with longer travel - the good ol' SoCal distorted concept of "image" that is such an imbedded part of our existence, that doesn't seem to exist in other parts of the universe where functionality matters far more than image.
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That's where you and I will always differ. For me, the badass is the guy on the titanium single speed who can ride the Luge in the same time that you mentioned to me the other day. I follow a couple of those guys on Strava. That's also the reason I don't need a full suspension bike... When I get down to their hardtail times, I'll know I'm ready. Unless, of course, they move the bar. :cautious: I was down to a minute behind @mtnbikej on Motorway, so he went and set a new PR on the Chameleon. :poop: :mad: :p

When you were talking about trails, you forgot quite a few. One that springs to mind, though, is Ding Dong. As short of a loop as even the vanilla Luge run, but there's HAB to get to the top. Far more technical and steep, with some fast flowy sections and switchbacks. Sort of a Super Luge. And no traffic. I've been meaning to give it another try.

doublewide said:
I don't know dude....I see your lil buddy Zak is out there quite a bit putting in some big rides with Carl Bauer...as for me, I'm looking forward to getting out there on my 28lb 6" XC/DH bike. :rolleyes:
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Dude! My hardtail weighs more than that. :oops: Well, at least she did. I've put her on a strict 500 calorie diet.
 
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Faust29 said:
That's where you and I will always differ. For me, the badass is the guy on the titanium single speed who can ride the Luge in the same time that you mentioned to me the other day.
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Just to try to clarify - I used Badass in the pejorative - that is, the image of badass. Like a lifted truck. I agree - I think @mtnbikej is a badass for reasons that need no elaboration here, and @mike likewise. Amazing skills, fitness and stoke.
 
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