Not CF
- Thread starter mike
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mike
iMTB Hooligan
First impressions of the Smash demo bike…
It’s a big bike compared to my Czar, over 5” longer, more stack height, and the demo bars are 2” wider than mine. The cockpit felt comfortable. The steep seat tube does a lot to make the bike pedal light. It doesn’t have a super low BB, so I felt relatively tall in the saddle, but again, comfortable. It’s a medium, I’m 5-10.5 with extra long limbs. The medium covers 5-8 to 6-1, they say. The bike is actually designed for you to not wear a pack, evidenced by the on-board tire repair kit and bottle cage mount.
The bike specs with 140 to 160mm forks. The demo had a 140 Pike RC, and I honestly think (prematurely, parhaps) more travel up front will make the bike less useful as a trail bike. Mitigate stack, and I'd like to preserve the nice climbing characteristics of the 140. I’ll need another ride on it with some adjustments, namely less shock pressure. Square-edge steps and larger roots while climbing sometimes induced a little stutter or hesitation. Tinkering will no doubt minimize it.
The SRAM brakes are not for me, coming from Shimano. Too much lever pull and inability to adjust out, DOT 3 fluid. The GX/e13 drive worked well. A 125mm dropper felt sufficient, but up to 175 will fit.
The demo is a “Ride 1” build, and I’m guessing it weighs over 30. You can get a medium build weight down under 30 lbs if you spend a few hund more for lighter crank/stem/bar (etc etc). But why would we ruminate on weight? We need to smash!
It climbed with confidence and comfort, no noted loss of energy, efficient, planted. I’ll work out the shock thing or maybe try the coil.
The descent from Evergreen Peak was indeed grinducing – so apparent that the bike is designed for going fast. I smashed every rooty and rocky section I could hit, pounded off larger rocks and water bars, with little braking and ample control. The more this bike is pushed, the more relaxed it feels. Super tight switchbacks were, of course, a smidgen harder at this point. I had to redo a couple, but really NTB for a first ride on a bike 5” longer than mine.
The whole descending experience on this bike was new for me. I came from the Czar and v1 Bronson, but this bike, as advertised, felt like it smashed at an unreal level, and begged for speed like nothing I’ve ridden. A demo like this, so different than anything I’ve owned, only tells the potential in a bike. It would take me ten rides to begin learning how to ride this bike. Same deal with my Bronson, it took 6 weeks of riding to know I loved it. So far I give this bike high marks for potential!
GG is a fantastic outfit. How can you not love the passion for homegrown MTB design, production and marketing in one house by a few visionary people? Go, USA. Go USA. MAGA, one bike at a time.
It’s a big bike compared to my Czar, over 5” longer, more stack height, and the demo bars are 2” wider than mine. The cockpit felt comfortable. The steep seat tube does a lot to make the bike pedal light. It doesn’t have a super low BB, so I felt relatively tall in the saddle, but again, comfortable. It’s a medium, I’m 5-10.5 with extra long limbs. The medium covers 5-8 to 6-1, they say. The bike is actually designed for you to not wear a pack, evidenced by the on-board tire repair kit and bottle cage mount.
The bike specs with 140 to 160mm forks. The demo had a 140 Pike RC, and I honestly think (prematurely, parhaps) more travel up front will make the bike less useful as a trail bike. Mitigate stack, and I'd like to preserve the nice climbing characteristics of the 140. I’ll need another ride on it with some adjustments, namely less shock pressure. Square-edge steps and larger roots while climbing sometimes induced a little stutter or hesitation. Tinkering will no doubt minimize it.
The SRAM brakes are not for me, coming from Shimano. Too much lever pull and inability to adjust out, DOT 3 fluid. The GX/e13 drive worked well. A 125mm dropper felt sufficient, but up to 175 will fit.
The demo is a “Ride 1” build, and I’m guessing it weighs over 30. You can get a medium build weight down under 30 lbs if you spend a few hund more for lighter crank/stem/bar (etc etc). But why would we ruminate on weight? We need to smash!
It climbed with confidence and comfort, no noted loss of energy, efficient, planted. I’ll work out the shock thing or maybe try the coil.
The descent from Evergreen Peak was indeed grinducing – so apparent that the bike is designed for going fast. I smashed every rooty and rocky section I could hit, pounded off larger rocks and water bars, with little braking and ample control. The more this bike is pushed, the more relaxed it feels. Super tight switchbacks were, of course, a smidgen harder at this point. I had to redo a couple, but really NTB for a first ride on a bike 5” longer than mine.
The whole descending experience on this bike was new for me. I came from the Czar and v1 Bronson, but this bike, as advertised, felt like it smashed at an unreal level, and begged for speed like nothing I’ve ridden. A demo like this, so different than anything I’ve owned, only tells the potential in a bike. It would take me ten rides to begin learning how to ride this bike. Same deal with my Bronson, it took 6 weeks of riding to know I loved it. So far I give this bike high marks for potential!
GG is a fantastic outfit. How can you not love the passion for homegrown MTB design, production and marketing in one house by a few visionary people? Go, USA. Go USA. MAGA, one bike at a time.
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dustyyoungblood
Guest
I can't image very many reasons why anyone would not want to ride a new Foes. Just saying
knucklebuster
Well-Known Member
Very cool Mike, thanks for the report. Wow, 5" longer than the Czar... I could imagine it would want to go fast and smash stuff! Looks like you had it in plush mode (?), did you try changing it to crush? I like that they give you options to change the leverage curve and it's pretty easy to do on the trail. One of the owners sometimes contributes to a Ridemonkey forum, sounds like they are in tune with their target audience... good stuff!
mike
iMTB Hooligan
Foes is the real deal, but $800 more expensive frame, for starters. I want a 29er with up to 2.5 tires – no interest in plus anything. 29er is an afterthought in the Foes lineup. I can't drive to Foes and return a demo a day or two later. I'm stoked you are digging your Mixer!
I'm sure the TP is even more versatile than the Smash. Looks like a quiver killer!
Plush all day, Dave – as recommended by the shop. Yes, really cool feature... one setting for the Front Range, one for Santa Anas????? Yes, they seem like a 'core bunch, Allison is on the CS with both feet!
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dustyyoungblood
Guest
Thanks for this review. Bet that was a fun pedal I love demo bikes.
J
john_hovard
Guest
It is so hard to find a new bike with all the nice ones on the market. But having a Mojo from 2009 that seems to last forever I am not searching anyway. Good luck.
I'll stay with 26" as I am not tall only 179cm.
I'll stay with 26" as I am not tall only 179cm.
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mike
iMTB Hooligan
Loving your ride is where it's at! Agreed, really so many possibilities when you talk nice bikes. I'm bent on supporting a US frame mfr., and that really helped narrow it down
Cheers, john...
Runs with Scissors
iMTB Hooligan
This is where I get labeled as a heretic, and a non-conformist.
I don't really care where the frame is put together, as long as it does what it's supposed to do. This ship sailed long ago, when we decided to be a nation of equal outcomes, rather than a meritocracy.
The design is done here, the execution is done there. Irrelevant to the outcome given sufficient quality control. The majors (and most minors) pay attention to that since it affects their bottom line.
If it works, and it checks off my "want boxes," then I'll buy it.
Proceed to flame away.
I don't really care where the frame is put together, as long as it does what it's supposed to do. This ship sailed long ago, when we decided to be a nation of equal outcomes, rather than a meritocracy.
The design is done here, the execution is done there. Irrelevant to the outcome given sufficient quality control. The majors (and most minors) pay attention to that since it affects their bottom line.
If it works, and it checks off my "want boxes," then I'll buy it.
Proceed to flame away.
mike
iMTB Hooligan
We didn't. I'm buying a new bike based on merit. It costs less than most comparable bikes, I can talk with the designers about setup and other details, can drop by to get a demo, and it's a fantastic bike. Is that enough merit? Oops, forgot it's US made.
kioti
iMTB Rockstah
I know you were riding there, but did you two move to Denver?We didn't. I'm buying a new bike based on merit. It costs less than most comparable bikes, I can talk with the designers about setup and other details, can drop by to get a demo, and it's a fantastic bike. Is that enough merit? Oops, forgot it's US made.
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dustyyoungblood
Guest
You can have all the QC measures you want. A US based brand can spend $2,ooo,000 a year flying in and out of China with their own engineers and QC guys and still not flag a batch of crap grade Aluminun sheet coming in the door. You can spot check 100 frames out of 1,000 and still miss 900 out of spec frames. All the QC measures in the world can't turn a peasant with 18month experience into a welder with 30years experience. And even if the welder is great, he's still not the owner of the brand or vested in the brand or its culture. There is a difference. The best factories and brands use processes to reduce the differences, but it's still there. Ask Evil or a slew of others.
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J
john_hovard
Guest
Loving your ride is where it's at! Agreed, really so many possibilities when you talk nice bikes. I'm bent on supporting a US frame mfr., and that really helped narrow it down
I did not tell you that my bike is US made? Ibis is at 2240 Delaware Ave. Santa Cruz, CA 95060. Not as far away from you as from me, and their service is great. When I had my Fox rear shock losing its built in pressure Fox did not answer my mails; I just wanted the shock repaired, not even warranty. No response from Germany, Spain or UK. I mailed Ibis and next day I got a mail from Fox in Portugal (European importer, I did not know). The mail told me where to go to send the shock express to them and a week after I got a rebuilt shock (to me it looks new); it still does as in the meantime I have bought a RockShox Monarch RT3 and that is great. The reason I did not put the Fox back on is that the letter enclosed with the Fox shock told me to have the shock serviced once a year. The Monarch has never been serviced and is still great on the 4th. year now. If you have never tried an Ibis bike you should living so close by.
Grassblade23
Member
Foes are incredibly ugly. They look like WalMart bikes. It's one of the rare frames that looks worse in person than in pictures. Of course that's all subjective to my personal taste. I hate swoopy and/or bent top tubes. That's one thing I loved about Turner's older alloy frames, the straight tubes look the way bicycles are supposed to look, (In my highly subjective opinion.) I have no hate for Foes or GG, though, and seeing one in use makes me smile. Also props to GG on their color choices.
I'm pretty sure not caring where your frame is made is the norm, not an act of non-conformity. I've been accused of racism for preferring US made bikes and avoiding PRC made frames. I currently ride US made alloy frames, (Iron Horse and Chumba,) but my next frames are likely to be Taiwanese made steel or carbon. If Turner goes back to US made alloy, that could change. My road bike and BMX freestyle bike are both TW made steel, and the quality is outstanding. I've got no enmity for folks not buying US made, but I definitely understand the appeal of a domestic frame.
Runs with Scissors
iMTB Hooligan
I hear what you're saying...but that's true whether made here or there. Is there a brand that owns the manufacturer? Or do they farm it out, whether US or overseas?
If they farm it out, they have the same issue, just a bit closer to home.
The bikes I've owned were all produced overseas, assembled here. I have had zero issues with any of them (Trek, Giant, GT). So as far as I can tell, paying a premium just to have it produced here gets me nowhere except poorer.
If we want to be a nation of producers, we have to understand that much of it truly is unskilled labor and depends more on inspection and testing that anything else. An example: Putting lug nuts on wheels at an auto assembly plant isn't worth $35/hour. But somehow it's more "noble."
I'm just not willing to pay extra for that, because it's pointless.
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dustyyoungblood
Guest
As an industrial designer, I feel I should respond to this is some way but I just can't find the words. I'll leave it at "subjective". Thanks for sharing
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dustyyoungblood
Guest
It all depends on who it's contracted out to, and how much oversight/experience/$$ the brand is willing to invest it in. Geography is important, not always paramount, but nonetheless less can be a factor to some processes. Some corners of the world just do not have expensive sophisticsted heat treat processes. or CNC tube notching. Tawain obviously got things wired. But that took years of efforts once Aluminum came into play.
USA made aluminum frames are not always top notch either. I've seen plenty of junk over the years.
And even some of the best looking fabrication on a USA made Boutique frame can't hide an absolute Sh!t design (2006' intense 6.6)
I think the takeaway from this discussion is not to only focus on location or price, but the big picture of the how/why/who and their descision making process for building a frame. I hear so often, "best warranty, I broke 3 of those but I got a new one every time". Wow good for you. From a design perspective, Every choice on a frame is a compromise to satisfy cost/performance/mass/engineering requirements/longevity. It really an impossible puzzle to solve.
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Voodoo Tom
MTB Addict
Only seen a couple of Foes bikes in person but they are works of art. Welds like that in aluminum aint easy if you're not a robot...
D
dustyyoungblood
Guest
My personal experience, I was blown away by how good the welding is on mine. There are some areas that present some really tricky welding, that you would never get out of a big box factory like giant. (Giant is Great, I like giant) It's just to much labor. Unless you are Brett Foes and don't let those details float away.
J
john_hovard
Guest
Loving your ride is where it's at! Agreed, really so many possibilities when you talk nice bikes. I'm bent on supporting a US frame mfr., and that really helped narrow it down
I did not tell you that my bike is US made? Ibis is at 2240 Delaware Ave. Santa Cruz, CA 95060. Not as far away from you as from me, and their service is great.
When I had my Fox rear shock losing its built in pressure Fox did not answer my mails; I just wanted the shock repaired, not even warranty. No response from Germany, Spain or UK.
I mailed Ibis and next day I got a mail from Fox in Portugal (European importer, I did not know). The mail told me where to go to send the shock express to them and a week after I got a rebuilt shock (to me it looks new); it still does as in the meantime I have bought a RockShox Monarch RT3 and that is great.
The reason I did not put the Fox back on is that the letter enclosed with the Fox shock told me to have the shock serviced once a year. The Monarch has never been serviced and is still great on the 4th. year now.
If you have never tried an Ibis bike you should living so close by.
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herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
Ibis bikes are not manufactured in the US.
And there are a ton of Ibis lovers on IMTB and on our local trails. Great bikes. Of the "boutique" brands, I see more Ibis than anything other than Santa Cruz. Followed by Pivot, Yeti, Intense, Niner, Turner and then some more obscure stuff. I am not including Specialized, Giant and Trek - as they are not mtb-only. All of these brands' frames are manufactured in Asia.
J
john_hovard
Guest
In 2009 I was told they were made in California. That did not prevent me from buying one.
So far I have tried no other bike that can pedal up-hill like my Mojo and still follow most when it no longer goes up. I can only say I am happy. My seatpost and stem are also US brands (do not know where they are actually made) Thomson. Everything else on the bike is from around the world, wheels from France (Mavic, spokes never corrode or break unlike the ones from Hope and DT Swizz; Fork from Germany? (Magura) very stiff and plush and great; brakes Shimano Saint from Asia?
I really do not care from where things are as long as they are the ones that do the job.
You live in a rather hot climate zone yes? If you know of any high quality MTB-shoes clipless that are very well ventilated I want to know the name of them. Here we have nothing that is not weighing a ton and mainly meant for winter even though we never have winter here.
Grassblade23
Member
I couldn't ask for a more diplomatic and reasonable response to my highly opinionated statement. Thank you.
herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
My Sidi Dominator 5s are pretty well ventilated. I live and ride in a coastal zone where temps are always moderate. I don't like heat and can't tolerate it like some of these he-man studs can!
And yes - DW Link is a wonderful suspension platform, whether it's on an Ibis, Pivot or Turner. Firm but compliant up the hill and surprisingly plush down. I definitely like it better than the VPP on my Intense. I'm surprised DW bikes don't win more races. I know the pilot matters most, and the best pilots are under contract by other companies.
littlewave
Well-Known Member
herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
No wins, but a lot of high finishers. I don't believe they even have a stage win, male or female.
littlewave
Well-Known Member
Fine. Change win to podium.