MCB2K
Well-Known Member
Two words... Blue Loctite.
Two words... Blue Loctite.
Daddy Dirtbag
Member
If it's back pain you are trying to alleviate, there could be other things I would try first. I'd like to see a pic of your bike from the side if it's not too much trouble.
herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
Sorry Strand, but you do not get to claim novice and claim those trails at the same time.
Those three are tougher than most anything the bulk of 20-year riders have ever successfully navigated. Those trails are indeed, badass... Or they would be, if they actually existed. 
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verdugist
Guest
Sorry pics are upside down hanging it's too cold outside....
I did get my bike fit settings from lbs and I had to move forward the saddle by about 1 inch which means I'll bend over slightly less when holding handle bars but not sure how much difference that will make.
Daddy Dirtbag
Member
Once I got it flipped over, it is kind of what I expected. Your seatpost has MEGA-setback on the clamp. Looks to be at least 25 mm of setback. Even with the mega-mondo setback clamp, you have some room to move the saddle forward. My suggestion would be to move the saddle forward a 1/4" or so, and see if that has any impact on the lower back pain you speak of.
Daddy Dirtbag
Member
Why is your front derailleur so high above the outer chainring?
The cage on that derailleur should only have a 2 mm gap as it swings over that large chainring.
The cage on that derailleur should only have a 2 mm gap as it swings over that large chainring.
herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
That happens to you too? I do that all the time. Sometimes from car accidents, sometimes sports injuries or sometimes from wrestling with a bear. - not to mention the times I show up from my MMA bouts. I always seem to be freshly bloodied everytime I go to a party.*
* none of this is true - but I did find Verdugist's comment too fascinating to let go...
Thread derail. Now, about those pedals. I think I will go turn some today while I can. I believe they will be Shimano XTR Trails, with the retention set very, very firm. I wanna feel and hear that click when I get in and out.
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verdugist
Guest
I moved the saddle forward about 1 inch prior to pic to set to length for tip of saddle to middle of handlebar length that lbs bike fit prescribed. Somehow that was off as I remember saddle got loose a couple months ago and I readjusted. Anyways off topic but thx for examining. My back is better after trying tennis ball myofascial release self massage on lower back last nite. Seems cheap and effective.
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verdugist
Guest
I have no idea and don't know that much about bike geometry and where/how components are expected to be located. I can't complain too much about drive train with this bike honestly. Other than maybe I need to replace chain soon.
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verdugist
Guest
Happened only once so far after a crash. They look at you like you're crazy it's kinda weird.
So I tested clipping/unclipping at 15 degree setting last nite and it seems ok. I'll update after today's ride assuming I don't cough my lungs out.
RS VR6
Well-Known Member
How long is your stem? Your saddle is pointed down too. I'm hurting looking at the pics.
StrandLeper
Well-Known Member
Sorry Strand, but you do not get to claim novice and claim those trails at the same time.
Herz,
There are so many amazing voices with deep knowledge and experience on this forum, and I want to make sure that when I contribute to technical threads that I am not perceived as having (or pretending to have) a masters knowledge/experience level. But thx for the kind words.
As to those aforementioned non-existent trails that I don't EVER Strava, you are correct, what trails?
Strand
rojomas
Member
Learn how to ride with flats correctly first like proper pedaling technique (which is not pulling up but more like wiping dog sh!t off your shoe), bunny hopping and jumping. If you don't, you will have improper technique when going to clipless and rely on the pedals to make up for your lack of skill.
herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
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verdugist
Guest
Actually, the saddle was pointed up after my adjustment initially. I thought I had set it to level when I re-adjusted it last night. So perhaps it's pointing down. Somehow it wasn't very comfortable for today's 6.2 mile ride but I didn't notice/focus on it much actually. But I usually tend to stand climb more often but I didn't as much today b/c it was quickly causing my left knee to hurt while standing/climbing. I left some details on the clipped-ins on another related thread but here is the bottom line:How long is your stem? Your saddle is pointed down too. I'm hurting looking at the pics.
Got a PR for descent
Got my 3rd best for climb (slower than best by almost 4 mins)
I was hoping/expecting reverse results (better climb, possibly same/slower descent). The PR is likely random/coincidental and not related to clipped-in. Also, I'm still sick so that may have contributed to slower climb. Climbing with clipped-in felt more natural/solid to me however.
herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
Hmmm, I think I am 180* opposite. I want to be perceived as knowing everything about everything without ever having to actually ride. Now if you will excuse me, I have to go teach Varaxis a thing or two about physics and engineering...
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verdugist
Guest
Plus, the other fantasy of the setup (to top it all off) is that one of the tires I can't read the pressure anymore b/c when I press down the top of the presta valve, no air releases. So I'm assuming I can't pump in air either. First time this has happened. Slime tire. [go tubeless]
Varaxis
Well-Known Member
Do you live on a steep hill or something, to end a ride in the granny on a 3x10?
I personally don't think stem length really matters as long as it fits--in other words, stem length is more about fit than anything else. Steering sensitivity is all about where the grips are in relation to the headset, and with bars as wide as they are, a few dozen mm of stem length difference should not affect the sensitivity as much as people think.
I personally don't think stem length really matters as long as it fits--in other words, stem length is more about fit than anything else. Steering sensitivity is all about where the grips are in relation to the headset, and with bars as wide as they are, a few dozen mm of stem length difference should not affect the sensitivity as much as people think.
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verdugist
Guest
I live at the edge of the Verdugos mountain space. I can literally walk into the Verdugos forest from my backyard. Thus the name verdugist.
And yes, my street (say the last 1000 yards of a typical neighborhood route) is maybe a 5% grade or so. I basically regularly use the full range of the 1-30 gears on that bike.
And yes, my street (say the last 1000 yards of a typical neighborhood route) is maybe a 5% grade or so. I basically regularly use the full range of the 1-30 gears on that bike.
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verdugist
Guest
I didn't measure it but based on name/model I searched and think it's 90mm. I honestly didn't know it was longer than usual but maybe you're right. The longer the stem the more you have to bend over while riding which probably is worse for the lower back.
Cyclotourist
iMTB Hooligan
This X1000!!!
rojomas
Member
Having been a MTB'r for over 20 years, I've had my fair share of stems and IMHO, the stem is one of the biggest factors to how a bike handles. A few mm can make a world of difference on how stable a bike is.
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herzalot
iMTB Hooligan
Well, this was a pedal thread, and now it's a lower back and stem thread. So I'll contribute here too, mostly because I know everything.
Don't assume that leaning over more = more back pain. Sometimes leaning over less = more back pain. I don't know the physiology to explain that, but I do know that for me (with badly bulging discs at L4 and L5) there are some positions where being too upright puts more strain on my back than a position leaning over more. I have about a 3-4" drop from my saddle level to my hands, which is pretty good, but not ideal. I test rode a bike that had about a 2-3" drop and that felt better (leaning over a little less). I won't change mine because I love the attack position, and the lower back pressure is manageable. I have also demo'd bikes that were level, or perhaps a slight increase from saddle to hands and those were the worst for my back.
The seat-post angle probably has as much to do with it as how much you lean over. Some seatpost angles put your hips too far behind the pedals, and for me that really taxes the lower back - and knees.
The good thing is that adjust your seat location does not cost money, and changing stem length, or adding or removing spacers under the stem is inexpensive and fairly easy to do - so experimentation is not out of the question. Only change one thing at a time though.
Another part of this formula to consider - proper attack position on a mt bike is chest low, elbows out. That is how to gain the best cornering and downhilling positions. If you ride with your hands higher than your saddle, you will never accomplish this position. Not enough weight over the front tire leads to ineffective use of front suspension and loss of traction on the front wheel, resulting in push rather than carve, and washouts. It's hard to tell from the photo above, but it looks like your saddle is much lower than your hands, if your saddle in that picture is set where you use it. You could remove the spacers and put them above your stem while you are experimenting to get your hands lower, and increase control - if your back can handle it.
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verdugist
Guest
That's interesting. During the bike fit in the summer, the LBS told me that the more expensive (racing?) bikes will have shorter stems (but don't quote me on that, some comment like that regarding stems which at the time I had no clue what that is and I think I happened to be inquiring about an S-WORKS bike next to us).
knucklebuster
Well-Known Member
Huh? dropper post?
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verdugist
Guest
I've actually been placing my butt behind the saddle on parts of the descents so I have more weight over the rear tire to help prevent skidding on rear braking. Seems to help but maybe contributes to back pain in that position. I have noticed that a lot of bikes have the saddle higher than the bars but for me I'm kinda max'd out at the saddle height practically speaking because sometimes I have a hard time mounting/dismounting with the shorts getting caught on the saddle. And no I won't wear spandex shorts thx.
rojomas
Member
That's complete BS. Long stems are suppose to aid in climbing by getting your weight forward but as a newb, chances are you're not much of a climber anyways. Shorter stems handle the descents better by getting your weight back. Lord only knows why they put longer stems on entry level bikes because IMO a longer stem does very little to aid in your climb and as a newb you won't know the difference. Plus it makes the bike sketchy on the DH by getting your weight too far forward over the front wheel. You're much more proned to go over the bars with a long stem on the DH. That's why you'll see the riders with long stems in a crouched superman positiongoing down hill when a the guy with the shorter stem is basically neutral or just leaning back.
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