Myths surrounding clipless pedals

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verdugist

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http://www.bikejames.com/strength/top-3-clipless-pedal-myths/

Let's dissect this point-by-point. The following are supposedly myths:

1) Clipless pedals let you pedal with more power.
2) You need to be able to pull up on your pedals to produce max power.
3) Standing up to pedal is hard and doing it too much will tire you out; it is better to sit and spin and save your energy.

I am about to try clipless pedals/shoes for the first time soon, and I was under the impression that #1 was true. #2 was true. and #3 was true. I was thinking that clipless was helping the group ride guys beat me up the hill. Or lighter bikes or they're in better shape? How ignorant am I people?

In fact, this particular tidbit: "Less skilled peddlers use the clipless interface as a crutch to bypass the hips and place extra stress on the already chronically tight hip flexors." is disturbing to me as my lower back issue may have root cause in the hip flexor (core) muscles being weak, etc.
 
Two or three times "pulling up" on the off side will give you a hamstring cramp like you wouldn't believe. Or screwed up tarsi.

Standing is harder, at least heart-rate-wise, than sitting, but it allows for a change of pace which is always a good thing. Too much will tire you out, though.

Clipless isn't a magic wand. It allows you to keep your foot in the perfect position - assuming you set them up correctly - and be somewhat more efficient. For some people it works great. For others it doesn't.
 
Everything that Scissors says above... But #2 has gotten a lot easier for me with conditioning and practice. If I don't hammer standing up, I can pedal at a slow cadence, and control my heart rate and breathing very easily. It's a nice change from sitting and spinning.

For me, the biggest advantage with clipless (Crank Brothers mallets for me), is the pedal position. I figured out the best spot, and it's there every time I clip in. And, I know my foot isn't going to slip off the pedal at the wrong time.
 
pperrelle said:
This. I run both. My climbing times are close no matter what pedals I'm using. The faster guys are going to be faster no matter what pedals they're using.
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So if that's the case, then the only significant advantage I really see with clipped-in is your feet won't bounce off the pedals on DH (or UH?) rocky sections vs. flats. And your shoes will always be in the optimal location I guess (not sure how important that is).

Also, it seems like a good idea to exercise your hamstrings as well. Why not use all of your lower body to help propel you forward? I think what's happening on the group climbs is they get tired as well, but then maybe they consciously or unconsciously start using the hamstrings to pull forward from 6 to 12 0'clock cycle. It's that or they are using hamstrings and quads all the time (in addition to glutes, etc.)

In fact, has anybody read about how the pros use their muscles for climbs with clipped-ins?
 
#1 sort of, the wording is a bit off.
#2 depends.
#3 depends.

Depends on what your muscles have become effective at. If you get used to mashing out of the saddle and pulling up, you've actively worked those muscles and they've become more efficient at doing just that. If you haven't done it regularly, those muscles will wear out faster, which may affect your normal pedaling technique.

They secure your feet better, in a familiar position, so you can ride with less worries about misplaced feet. They allow you to put out power in ways that you really can't on flats, pulling up, which is especially useful for clutch situations and other cases where you need bursts of power. Also, they allow for sloppy pedaling form.

If you brought up the claim that clipless are more efficient, then I would've said false. They're no more or less efficient than flats. By nature, your biggest muscles/muscle groups make the most efficient use of your energy stores. The most natural feeling pedal stroke to you tends to be your most efficient--if you try and force a different one, that one will feel inefficient, unless you practice it so much that it becomes your new most natural pedal stroke through habit.
 
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verdugist said:
http://www.bikejames.com/strength/top-3-clipless-pedal-myths/

Let's dissect this point-by-point. The following are supposedly myths:

1) Clipless pedals let you pedal with more power.
2) You need to be able to pull up on your pedals to produce max power.
3) Standing up to pedal is hard and doing it too much will tire you out; it is better to sit and spin and save your energy.

I am about to try clipless pedals/shoes for the first time soon, and I was under the impression that #1 was true. #2 was true. and #3 was true. I was thinking that clipless was helping the group ride guys beat me up the hill. Or lighter bikes or they're in better shape? How ignorant am I people?

In fact, this particular tidbit: "Less skilled peddlers use the clipless interface as a crutch to bypass the hips and place extra stress on the already chronically tight hip flexors." is disturbing to me as my lower back issue may have root cause in the hip flexor (core) muscles being weak, etc.
Click to expand...

Once again.....ride more, read less.
 
Varaxis said:
You hear about the cyclist that rode 70k+ miles in a year? ~200 miles a day.... was pretty sure there were myths about riding more. Well, he can prove them mythbusters wrong if he races pro or beats his own record the next year.
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yup....we already talked about it in another thread....doesn't have much to do with this thread though.

@verdugist is going to end up with "paralysis by analysis" because of how many "how to" articles he reads. For a newb, he just needs to start off with more saddle time. He just needs to ride with faster/more experienced riders and he will pick up the skills.
 
I've given up trying to convince anyone either way. It all comes down to comfort and preference.

I do believe that clips are better (for me).
I do believe that I am more at one with my machine clipped in. I'm hesitant to use the word efficient in front of varaxis. But I do pull up on the backside. I think it helps to perfect a better spin which in turn gives a rider the ability to clean more climbs on loose terra firma since the rear wheel is rotating with a smoother rotation.

But there are guys out there that can out climb me with flats, so now what?

...personal preference.
 
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Here's the thing with clipless...there is a learning curve to it. Bike James ditched the clipless pedals after falling a few times. He couldn't figure out how to use them...so he wrote them off. To really get clipless pedals...you need to go through the learning curve.

The other is what you type of bike and/or what type of riding you do. Go to a XC race and anything above beginner level will be 100% clipless.
 
I've pretty much only ridden clipless but was using flats for a little while a couple of years ago while in Atlanta. The hills there a very short and the trails more technical; I liked the flats there. When I got back to the long climbs of SoCal I switched back to clipless almost right away, I didn't feel like I could spin as well. Pulling up on the pedal can be bad, but spinning circles is much more efficient. Terrible article though, I've never heard of the blog and wouldn't plan on reading it again.
 
There is a SERIOUS learning curve to them. Nothing will freak you out more than coming to a stop and not being able to unclip and falling over like a noob (done that).

Start with the multi-directional ones and loosen your pedals as far as they will go. Get used to the feel of setting your shoes into your pedals, and getting them out. Ride around the block. Then tighten your pedals one click and repeat. For me, I stop tightening the moment I feel ANY resistance when I try to kick out my foot. I can mash like a champ, and I like the security on the downhills, as well as spinning on long climbs (I swear I am pulling up on the off pedal but maybe I am just imagining it). But when the Sh!t hits the fan - my feet are OUT OF THERE instantly.
 
If you got used to clipless, you will miss all the things you can do with clipless if you switch to flats. If you got used to flats, what you have learned would transfer over to clipless. You are pretty much forced to ride in a more fluid fashion with flats.

Can't argue with clipless being useful in a race, but if you're seeing 100% clipless outside of a race, I'd say you're seeing sheep.
 
Varaxis said:
I'd say you're seeing sheep.
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"BAAAA BAAAAAA"

Funny-sheep.jpg
 
I've been clipless for 20 years or so (Onza!) but recently wanted to try out flats on my MTB as I really dislike bike shoes. Wow, was it hard! I was getting bucked off the bike constantly. I don't know if it's bad form/habits I learned, or I just used the tools at hand, but what a difference it was not being clipped in.

On my road bike, I pretty much have to be clipped in to hold my foot/leg in the right position due to IT band issues that can be debilitating if I I don't stay on top of them. I need to hold my foot in just the right position so that I don't start having pain. Being clipped in keeps me there, while if I use flats, my foot starts moving around and my IT starts a rubbin'.

On shorter rides, I can go with flats with no problems, it's just the longer rides that cause the IT problems.
 
RS VR6 said:
Here's the thing with clipless...there is a learning curve to it. Bike James ditched the clipless pedals after falling a few times. He couldn't figure out how to use them...so he wrote them off. To really get clipless pedals...you need to go through the learning curve.
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My thoughts on clipless and flats...both have a learning curve to them. Flats may seem simpler since you just put a foot down anywhere and pedal but there are a lot of nuances and skills to pick up to really be able to use flats efficiently. Once you do pick up on those, IMO there are few advantages to clipless over flats. For me personally I only use clipless on a singlespeed now because I like being able to pull up hard. On a geared bike I don't find clipless have much advantage. Maybe on technical rocky climbs for the ability to pull up but I do pretty well on flats too.

I have read clipless have a 11-13% advantage in efficiency over flats. That may be a lot if you are a racer but for the 99% of us who ride for recreation lets be honest they won't really make much difference. I get the feeling a lot of people "upgrade" to clipless because it is another piece of gear that they think makes them look more hardcore. Aside from singlespeed I've never noticed much benefit. I am comfortable on clipless except for steep and/or technical descents. And before you say "I can unclip just fine" that is not the problem. Try clipping back in after you dab going down some heinous steep chute. If you're lucky you clip back in. But a lot of the time you are in for a wild scary ride. If you run flats though you have nothing to worry about. And if you do a lot rides that involve hike a bike I would say flats are a much better choice.

At the end of the day use whatever works best for you. Everyone is comfortable on one or the other. The biggest mistake people make when they try the other is not spending enough time to really learn and get comfortable on the other.
 
1) Clipless pedals let you pedal with more power.
2) You need to be able to pull up on your pedals to produce max power.
3) Standing up to pedal is hard and doing it too much will tire you out; it is better to sit and spin and save your energy.

......not myths.
 
evdog said:
I am comfortable on clipless except for steep and/or technical descents. And before you say "I can unclip just fine" that is not the problem. Try clipping back in after you dab going down some heinous steep chute. If you're lucky you clip back in. But a lot of the time you are in for a wild scary ride. If you run flats though you have nothing to worry about. And if you do a lot rides that involve hike a bike I would say flats are a much better choice.
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That's why I use Mallet 3's on my "trail" bike. Its got a large platform so that my shoe will not roll off in the event I can't clip in right away. When I do clip back in...it'll be in the right spot...every time.

Clipless to me just plain feels better...thats it. Nothing more nothing less.
 
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A lot of people advise using multi-directional-release cleats and turning the tension down to almost nothing as a way of learning to ride clipped in without the feeling of being trapped. Personally, I think that's a bad idea, because you will most likely unclip when you don't want to - like anytime you get a little sideways, or trying to catch a little air (with a bunny hop), or bouncing through a rock garden at a moderate pace, or when trying to mash up a hill with a less-than-perfect pedal stroke.

If you're gonna learn clips, learn clips. Ride around in a park and practice clipping in and out in all kinds of weird positions, going slow, going faster etc. Make sure your shoe is not interfering with your pedal when it rotates. If it is, take a knife to your shoe sole and carve some of the rubber away for a clean rotation.

If you are going to try to go with a "best of both worlds" approach like a CB Mallet with Five Ten shoes, make damn sure you have the cleat clearance and peg height dialed in or you will truly lock your feet onto your pedals. Five Tens will not rotate on a typical flat pedal with pins, and if it's snugged up via clip and cleat, you are truly stuck. After 20 years of riding in both clips and flats (not at the same time), I learned the Mallet and 5-10 problem the hard way just last year. I actually had to take my shoe off to get off the bike. :oops: Thankfully, I was in my driveway while practicing and checking clearances, and not on a trail when I needed to get out.

I'd say over 90% of the "serious" mt. bikers I see on the trails ride clipped in, but if you really want to look like a badass, honey-badger free-rider, go with some colorful anodized flats and some Sam Hill 5-10s. Forget which works better for you or which gives you more confidence - go with the image you want to portray. That's far more important in mt. biking!*

PS: If you are using flats, practice bunny hopping until you can get the back of the bike up in the air about 1 ft. The more suspension your bike has, the more delightful this experience. The scars you will generate on your shins and calves while learning this essential skill will definitely make you look super cool!





*(sarcasm)
 
herzalot said:
A lot of people advise using multi-directional-release cleats and turning the tension down to almost nothing as a way of learning to ride clipped in without the feeling of being trapped. Personally, I think that's a bad idea, because you will most likely unclip when you don't want to - like anytime you get a little sideways, or trying to catch a little air (with a bunny hop), or bouncing through a rock garden at a moderate pace, or when trying to mash up a hill with a less-than-perfect pedal stroke.

If you're gonna learn clips, learn clips. Ride around in a park and practice clipping in and out in all kinds of weird positions, going slow, going faster etc. Make sure your shoe is not interfering with your pedal when it rotates. If it is, take a knife to your shoe sole and carve some of the rubber away for a clean rotation.

If you are going to try to go with a "best of both worlds" approach like a CB Mallet with Five Ten shoes, make damn sure you have the cleat clearance and peg height dialed in or you will truly lock your feet onto your pedals. Five Tens will not rotate on a typical flat pedal with pins, and if it's snugged up via clip and cleat, you are truly stuck. After 20 years of riding in both clips and flats (not at the same time), I learned the Mallet and 5-10 problem the hard way just last year. I actually had to take my shoe off to get off the bike. :oops: Thankfully, I was in my driveway while practicing and checking clearances, and not on a trail when I needed to get out.

I'd say over 90% of the "serious" mt. bikers I see on the trails ride clipped in, but if you really want to look like a badass, honey-badger free-rider, go with some colorful anodized flats and some Sam Hill 5-10s. Forget which works better for you or which gives you more confidence - go with the image you want to portray. That's far more important in mt. biking!*

PS: If you are using flats, practice bunny hopping until you can get the back of the bike up in the air about 1 ft. The more suspension your bike has, the more delightful this experience. The scars you will generate on your shins and calves while learning this essential skill will definitely make you look super cool!





*(sarcasm)
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I definitely don't look badass with (what I just discovered) is a road cycling helmet and a green DB bike. So it really doesn't matter in that respect. Badass is when you show up to a party all bloody perhaps.

Thanks much for your response, it was ultimately the most helpful for me I think b/c I bought the same combo of pedals/shoes you described. I was hoping clipped-in would help alleviate the lower back pain and improve climbs but we'll see I guess. In the meatime, I'm focusing on core stabilization exercises and stretching (so boring).
 
Novice perspective:

If you are going to go with cleats, every few rides make darn sure that your cleats are tightly screwed into you shoes. I love and use CB eggbeaters and candies. But if the CB shoe clip is loose (which sometimes happens) , you can get stuck and fall right over at the stop sign on Forest Avenue right in front of a hundred pedestrians on a summer day. (No, never happened to me... ;) )

I am going to convert my Bronson to flats to get my son more comfortable riding slightly technical stuff (and for me riding things like Waimea, Telonics and Art School) ... never done flats before, so it should be interesting.

Good luck!

Strand.
 
verdugist said:
I definitely don't look badass with (what I just discovered) is a road cycling helmet and a green DB bike. So it really doesn't matter in that respect. Badass is when you show up to a party all bloody perhaps.

Thanks much for your response, it was ultimately the most helpful for me I think b/c I bought the same combo of pedals/shoes you described. I was hoping clipped-in would help alleviate the lower back pain and improve climbs but we'll see I guess. In the meatime, I'm focusing on core stabilization exercises and stretching (so boring).
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Badass is when you're doing Sh!t that others would make excuses up to avoid, due to their pedals or whatever, and not completely failing at it.
 
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