Mountain Biker...

mtbMike said:
For the life of me, I can't visualize that section of Sunset Ridge. It's probably my favorite trail up there too. The video makes it looks pretty sketchy but I just can't recall being concerned on that trail. There's definitely a few corners on Mt Lowe East that have some pucker factor. Every time I take a Mount Wilson virgin up there, I remind them to ride at their own comfort level and don't worry about others getting too far ahead. We've had two people go over the side on our rides but never in the sketchiest of places thankfully.
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Yeah I agree, last time I rode there in April I don't remember this feature or having any concern as I passed it, other than consciously knowing there is a cliff, which is always on my mind in the Gabes.
 
Cisco Roots said:
Yeah I agree, last time I rode there in April I don't remember this feature or having any concern as I passed it, other than consciously knowing there is a cliff, which is always on my mind in the Gabes.
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I have tunnel vision when I'm rolling the San Gabes with so many of it's trails having continuous death drops on one side. I just turn the "cliff on the side of me" thing OFF in my head as I roll along.

There is no cliff there! :D
 
A moment of honesty if I may.
This incident has really shaken me. So much that I am beginning to question my riding habits. I have 2 young children at home, and have been thinking ... well you know.. what if DaDa didn't come home. I think about solo Strawberry loops, or Winter Creek and Zion loops, and the potential. Yes, this is a high risk sport, but maybe I need to mitigate some of that risk. One of our own members went over on Sunset recently, thank fully only a few meters down... but it could happen at other spots easily. Not riding alone in those areas is beneficial.. but if you go over, you go over.

I'm thinking I might be sticking to areas of less exposure. I'll probably keep El P in the loop, but I'm gonna limit areas with sheer cliff for the time being. As awesome as some of those trails are, it's no where near the level of getting home and hugging the kiddos.

end/ honesty
 
Derkderkall said:
A moment of honesty if I may.
This incident has really shaken me. So much that I am beginning to question my riding habits. I have 2 young children at home, and have been thinking ... well you know.. what if DaDa didn't come home. I think about solo Strawberry loops, or Winter Creek and Zion loops, and the potential. Yes, this is a high risk sport, but maybe I need to mitigate some of that risk. One of our own members went over on Sunset recently, thank fully only a few meters down... but it could happen at other spots easily. Not riding alone in those areas is beneficial.. but if you go over, you go over.

I'm thinking I might be sticking to areas of less exposure. I'll probably keep El P in the loop, but I'm gonna limit areas with sheer cliff for the time being. As awesome as some of those trails are, it's no where near the level of getting home and hugging the kiddos.

end/ honesty
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People die everyday doing things much less dangerous.

unfortunately when it’s time to punch the clock the last time….it’s gonna happen no matter what you are doing.

I say continue doing what you are doing…as long as you enjoy it.

I know many may not agree with this, but honesty is honesty. I prefer to enjoy what I’m doing and not worry about “what could”.
 
Derkderkall said:
A moment of honesty if I may.
This incident has really shaken me. So much that I am beginning to question my riding habits. I have 2 young children at home, and have been thinking ... well you know.. what if DaDa didn't come home. I think about solo Strawberry loops, or Winter Creek and Zion loops, and the potential. Yes, this is a high risk sport, but maybe I need to mitigate some of that risk. One of our own members went over on Sunset recently, thank fully only a few meters down... but it could happen at other spots easily. Not riding alone in those areas is beneficial.. but if you go over, you go over.

I'm thinking I might be sticking to areas of less exposure. I'll probably keep El P in the loop, but I'm gonna limit areas with sheer cliff for the time being. As awesome as some of those trails are, it's no where near the level of getting home and hugging the kiddos.

end/ honesty
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Let's arrange a playdate! Mine are 2 and 4...
 
Derkderkall said:
A moment of honesty if I may.
This incident has really shaken me. So much that I am beginning to question my riding habits. I have 2 young children at home, and have been thinking ... well you know.. what if DaDa didn't come home. I think about solo Strawberry loops, or Winter Creek and Zion loops, and the potential. Yes, this is a high risk sport, but maybe I need to mitigate some of that risk. One of our own members went over on Sunset recently, thank fully only a few meters down... but it could happen at other spots easily. Not riding alone in those areas is beneficial.. but if you go over, you go over.

I'm thinking I might be sticking to areas of less exposure. I'll probably keep El P in the loop, but I'm gonna limit areas with sheer cliff for the time being. As awesome as some of those trails are, it's no where near the level of getting home and hugging the kiddos.

end/ honesty
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If one is aware of riding hazards I would guess that driving to the TH has greater likelihood of producing serious injury or death. I can see dismounting certain bits, but not skipping a trail because of one or a few dumb sections. Same as when it's just too hard or whatever. If (that) you have awareness is everything.

I don't consider MTB a high-risk sport. I think facets of it can be, but you and I trail riding whatever we choose is pretty tame compared to other ways to get endorphins. Everyone is different. Fear can inhibit performance, so listening to your honest self and making whatever adjustments is a positive thing.
 
Derkderkall said:
A moment of honesty if I may.
This incident has really shaken me. So much that I am beginning to question my riding habits. I have 2 young children at home, and have been thinking ... well you know.. what if DaDa didn't come home. I think about solo Strawberry loops, or Winter Creek and Zion loops, and the potential. Yes, this is a high risk sport, but maybe I need to mitigate some of that risk. One of our own members went over on Sunset recently, thank fully only a few meters down... but it could happen at other spots easily. Not riding alone in those areas is beneficial.. but if you go over, you go over.

I'm thinking I might be sticking to areas of less exposure. I'll probably keep El P in the loop, but I'm gonna limit areas with sheer cliff for the time being. As awesome as some of those trails are, it's no where near the level of getting home and hugging the kiddos.

end/ honesty
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I ride alone frequently... And I've also gone over the side a few times. Boy Scout, Middle Merrill, SART... @bigringrider101 was right behind me for that last one. As I was hanging onto the bush, I remember him saying, "Wow, that was an easy stretch of trail. How'd you end up down there?" :cautious: I miss Berni...

When I ride alone, I ride differently. I smell the roses more, and set my own pace... There are quite a few features on the front range that I'll clean when others are around, but walk when I'm alone. Or... I don't put the same effort and value into cleaning them. The risk isn't worth it when help might be a long time in coming. But... I would never completely skip a trail because of the risk or the difficulty level...

The level of risk that is acceptabele for you is something you have to figure out for yourself. I would just advise to look for a middle ground... And it doesn't hurt to have a guide the first few times. When you're ready to go up higher on the front range, let me know... :thumbsup:
 
Derkderkall said:
A moment of honesty if I may.
This incident has really shaken me. So much that I am beginning to question my riding habits. I have 2 young children at home, and have been thinking ... well you know.. what if DaDa didn't come home. I think about solo Strawberry loops, or Winter Creek and Zion loops, and the potential. Yes, this is a high risk sport, but maybe I need to mitigate some of that risk. One of our own members went over on Sunset recently, thank fully only a few meters down... but it could happen at other spots easily. Not riding alone in those areas is beneficial.. but if you go over, you go over.

I'm thinking I might be sticking to areas of less exposure. I'll probably keep El P in the loop, but I'm gonna limit areas with sheer cliff for the time being. As awesome as some of those trails are, it's no where near the level of getting home and hugging the kiddos.

end/ honesty
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Thanks for sharing. Seriously. Too many people off themselves because they have to "measure up."

I ride a lot on streets. I don't care about stats, so I can't say whether it's statistically more dangerous than riding on the edge of a cliff in the dirt. I do know that I've crashed less on the street, and never been hit (we won't discuss that incident in 1978). I also run really annoying lights on the road and obey the rules of same - which can confuse the hell out of drivers.

I don't take many risks on dirt. Mostly because I've hit pavement at speed and don't want to repeat the experience on granite, decomposed or otherwise. I also just enjoy pedaling, mostly uphill. I do like going fast downhill, but only when I have plenty of room to correct my own boneheaded mistakes. Probably the sketchiest trail I've ridden - or will ride - is the Silverado Motorway. Unless SART is sketchier. I don't know the answer.

As others have mentioned, each must determine his own level of acceptable risk. You have youngsters, so your caution is probably good. Mine are both grown, but I still ain't ready to check out yet. ;)

Bikes probably won't be my demise.
 
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Faust29 said:
I ride alone frequently... And I've also gone over the side a few times. Boy Scout, Middle Merrill, SART... @bigringrider101 was right behind me for that last one. As I was hanging onto the bush, I remember him saying, "Wow, that was an easy stretch of trail. How'd you end up down there?" :cautious: I miss Berni...

When I ride alone, I ride differently. I smell the roses more, and set my own pace... There are quite a few features on the front range that I'll clean when others are around, but walk when I'm alone. Or... I don't put the same effort and value into cleaning them. The risk isn't worth it when help might be a long time in coming. But... I would never completely skip a trail because of the risk or the difficulty level...

The level of risk that is acceptabele for you is something you have to figure out for yourself. I would just advise to look for a middle ground... And it doesn't hurt to have a guide the first few times. When you're ready to go up higher on the front range, let me know... :thumbsup:
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I ride alone about 1/3 of the time and definitely spin at a slower pace but what's always on my mind when riding solo is mountain lions....even though being attacked and killed is statistically even lower than going over the edge on Sunset. I've only run across two (that I actually saw) in my 30 years of riding and neither one of them stuck around to chat. Heck, I can't even confirm they saw me.
 
The thing is you can crash anywhere anytime. Just certain sections the odds go up. Add the low light and let the fun begin.
when I ride alone I ride the same, when I ride at night I ride the same. When I ride where there are other riders I ride with caution especially at corners but anywhere vision is limited. I only drop the seat post when going down the upper middle part of the bird. I do not drop down the trail often, and towards the end I wish I had not.
But right now I do not ride at all, I crashed on a straight ridge with no real reason to crash. Going 35 and heard a bang, I did not even know I was flying. Anytime, anywhere.
Happy trails
 
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Those of you that ride the San Gabes regularly certainly have an additional dimension to deal with in terms of risk/reward management. The only time I've ever had a brush with death (which is weird to even type) on my bike was on the Gabrielino below Switzers when I hung more of my front tire over the edge than I care to think about after a rock gave way on a treacherous section, and I just got enough of a foot down to arrest my momentum. It happened so fast, and then on I went. Kind of surreal in retrospect. But the fact that I was with others would have just meant that, had things gone differently, somebody would have been able to direct the authorities where to retrieve my carcass.

I ride alone more often than not, and I think I'm actually more prone to take risks alone. A lot of that comes down to the fact that alone I can allow myself time to size up a feature, and get in the right headspace to try it. Time that I wouldn't subject fellow riders to in a group ride. But again, out here these are situations where the consequence would be injury, and probably minor. Not death.

I LOVE riding the Gabes, and I think one of the addictive parts of riding there is stepping outside my comfort zone. But, when I think about odds, sometimes I'm glad that the exposure isn't something that I have to deal with all the time.
 
I look at risk in mountain biking two ways. There is the risk of a crash happening, and there is the likely consequence if you do crash. You're more likely to crash on a trail that is technical/steep/gnarly, or if you're riding faster. Consequences of a crash are likely to be worse if you fall further or harder, usually if a trail is steeper/rockier/exposed, or if you're riding faster. You can obviously reduce a lot of risk by walking certain sections, especially where both conditions exist. Whatever is comfortable for you. I like riding steep/technical trail, but it becomes not worth it when there is high risk of a bad OTB or significant exposure.

Sh!t can happen anywhere though, including easier trails. My worst ever crash was on a flat trail on campus when a woman's off leash dog came out of nowhere and ran in front of me. I landed on my head after trying to avoid it, was knocked out cold and ended up in the head trauma unit with no memory of the next 5-6 hrs. Even without canine interference it's the easy sections of trail that always seem to bite me, when I've let my guard down and am not paying as much attention to the trail. Fortunately consequences in these cases are usually minimal, but stuff like clipping a handlebar or having a tire slip out on an exposed section can happen in an instant too.

Like others I've seen people go over the edge on SART and Downieville. Is it likely to happen? No. Think how many people ride these trails vs the number of fatal or serious crashes. Do whatever you're comfortable with, but as others said there are any number of other activities like driving or even walking across the street that could kill you. You could walk hard sections of trail only to get taken out by something silly on an easy section.

I'd like to think I have a pretty good sense of self preservation, and I don't hesitate to get off and walk when I get to a section I'm not comfortable with. I definitely need to pay more attention on easier sections of trail. Dialing the speed back a bit is probably the biggest thing I do to reduce risk. I don't use strava, don't chase PR's. Slowing down a bit gives more reaction time, more margin for error, and means I don't hit the ground as hard if I do crash.
 
SnakeCharmer said:
I have tunnel vision when I'm rolling the San Gabes with so many of it's trails having continuous death drops on one side. I just turn the "cliff on the side of me" thing OFF in my head as I roll along.

There is no cliff there! :D
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I'm going to reply to my own quote here. Aside from what I said above, those of you who ride with me know that I am conservative/cautious through the gnar. Being self employed, the money stops coming in the moment I am unable to work, so I have to draw the line there when the superhero sections of the trail arrive. I'm not overly afraid of going over a cliff and dying. Been there done that, and I survived so I think I've already tackled that hurdle. In closing, I've got nothing to prove and I support whatever precautions my fellow riders want to take because it's better to be safe than sorry.
 
evdog said:
Sh!t can happen anywhere though, including easier trails.
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Yep, I've had TWO serious injury accidents in 30+ years of riding. One in 2012 (fractured 4 ribs....still went on a road trip to Fruita a week later and rode every day) and one in 2014 (fractured C1 & C2 when I went over the bars at TWO mph). Both accidents happened at Calavera in Carlsbad, the local area closest to my house on trails I've ridden 100+ times and had no business crashing on.
 
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mtnbikej said:
People die everyday doing things much less dangerous.

unfortunately when it’s time to punch the clock the last time….it’s gonna happen no matter what you are doing.

I say continue doing what you are doing…as long as you enjoy it.

I know many may not agree with this, but honesty is honesty. I prefer to enjoy what I’m doing and not worry about “what could”.
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I believe you are hugely responsible for making your own luck. I’ll try most anything once. Not a fan of exposure but I will go. Ride fast enough to have fun ride slow enough to come back and ride another day I always say.
 
Some features r easier at speed wo scouting... first time I went down grass hopper..I thought what fun.. took it fast.. next time I went w others and they scouted.. made me nervous...
 
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