Anyone already own arms or buying arms?

[kazlx]

For anyone interested that wants to shoot, new or seasoned, open invite. Open offer if you are new and just want to learn about guns/handling/shooting etc. Even if you are anti-gun and would like to go out for the experience, have some info and still feel free to make your own decisions the offer is there. I feel there is quite a bit of misinformation spread around fear and just plain not knowing. A few hours and your own experience and you will at least have a little bit more informed opinion and be able to separate the wheat from the chaff so to say. There's a lot of BS that gets thrown around no matter which area of the political spectrum you fall.

 

[Maderas84]

For anyone interested that wants to shoot, new or seasoned, open invite. Open offer if you are new and just want to learn about guns/handling/shooting etc. Even if you are anti-gun and would like to go out for the experience, have some info and still feel free to make your own decisions the offer is there. I feel there is quite a bit of misinformation spread around fear and just plain not knowing. A few hours and your own experience and you will at least have a little bit more informed opinion and be able to separate the wheat from the chaff so to say. There's a lot of BS that gets thrown around no matter which area of the political spectrum you fall.

Thank you sir.

 

[skyungjae]

I was taught that for protection, shotgun is the way to go. No need to aim, they make a nice distinct scary noise, and they work as a club.

Taught by Hollywood? As a firearms instructor currently for the fed gov't and Marine Corps, it always irks me when people make the claim that you don't have to aim a shotgun. The most tacticool looking officers/agents geared up looking like they're about to invade Fallujah fail shotgun quals from time to time. Most buckshot, the go to self defense load, is going to have a spread less than 3" at 10 yards. You still need to aim, but aiming is easier with a buttstock when shooting from a static position.

Long guns (shotguns and rifles), in general, have a much easier learning curve than pistols so it does make sense for a lot of people to select them as their first go-to defensive weapon. However, I always recommend training and a handgun for home/self defense in the city and suburbs. The rationale behind this is a handgun is simply more versatile. It's not cumbersome indoors, you can easily conceal it which has MANY advantages, and it can be deployed quickly. The downside is it takes a lot more training to be proficient with a handgun than it does a long gun.

Since OP has LEO guidance, I'm assuming he's already recommended accessories and ammo. If not, I highly recommend a weapon mounted light for the Sig and Benelli. I can't cite the statistic, but off the top of my head, the majority of defensive firearms altercations happen in low light scenarios. Low light doesn't necessarily mean night or pitch black. It can be a parking garage, inside a house with closed blinds, etc... Target identification is really important for anyone about to pull a trigger. Legally, you will be liable for any round that damages property or causes bodily injury. It's good to know what you're aiming at before making a decision that's going to change your life forever.

Have fun finding a comfortable holster. All the air marshalls I know have drawers full of holsters.

 

[Mikie]

Taught by Hollywood? As a firearms instructor currently for the fed gov't and Marine Corps, it always irks me when people make the claim that you don't have to aim a shotgun. The most tacticool looking officers/agents geared up looking like they're about to invade Fallujah fail shotgun quals from time to time. Most buckshot, the go to self defense load, is going to have a spread less than 3" at 10 yards. You still need to aim, but aiming is easier with a buttstock when shooting from a static position.

Long guns (shotguns and rifles), in general, have a much easier learning curve than pistols so it does make sense for a lot of people to select them as their first go-to defensive weapon. However, I always recommend training and a handgun for home/self defense in the city and suburbs. The rationale behind this is a handgun is simply more versatile. It's not cumbersome indoors, you can easily conceal it which has MANY advantages, and it can be deployed quickly. The downside is it takes a lot more training to be proficient with a handgun than it does a long gun.

Since OP has LEO guidance, I'm assuming he's already recommended accessories and ammo. If not, I highly recommend a weapon mounted light for the Sig and Benelli. I can't cite the statistic, but off the top of my head, the majority of defensive firearms altercations happen in low light scenarios. Low light doesn't necessarily mean night or pitch black. It can be a parking garage, inside a house with closed blinds, etc... Target identification is really important for anyone about to pull a trigger. Legally, you will be liable for any round that damages property or causes bodily injury. It's good to know what you're aiming at before making a decision that's going to change your life forever.

Have fun finding a comfortable holster. All the air marshalls I know have drawers full of holsters.

You don't look like your Avatar at all.... do you...

 

[Sidewalk]

Sorry, but if someone has broken into my house I’m, not taking the chance that they are here to “talk”. I will be armed and I will be pulling the trigger if I feel myself or my family is being threatened.

I've personally never known anyone to have been a victim of a "home invasion" scenario. Everyone I know who has been robbed, including myself, were robbed when they weren't home. One of the few things that was stolen from me was my safe, probably looking for a gun (I didn't have one at the time). My friend was robbed, he wasn't home, and all that was stolen was his gun safe, a smaller one for a "home defense" weapon that was easy to reach. So in his case, a couple new firearms on the street, so he could feel safe. Now he keeps his firearms in a large safe that is not easy access.

The cowboy protecting himself is a television idea. Rarely does that happen. Thieves aren't looking to die, they are looking for easily stolen, his street value material. Breaking in when no one is home and picking easy to walk away with items is way easier than trying not to confront you in the middle of the night. Even easier, stealing stuff off the porch.

But sometimes, they just want to steal your gun, which is usually easy to steal and easy to unload.

That same gun is really good at getting someone in your family shot for *thinking* someone is in your home, or a kid getting a hold of it. I'm lucky to be alive after my 10 year old cousin decided to show off his parents "self defense" gun when we were kids. They never once shot at anyone legally, but pretty sure they did illegally (very racist, white trash family members).

 

[skyungjae]

I think most people looking to take something you have aren't looking to confront anyone. Life isn't like the GTA video game series. Otherwise someone would've kicked me off my Santa Cruz Bronson years ago and rode off with it.

Another benefit of handgun over shotgun is you can realistically carry almost anywhere, have it readily accessible, and in your control at almost all times. That P226 is rather large though. Proper and safe storage is important though to prevent theft and accidents.

 

[mtbMike]

I've personally never known anyone to have been a victim of a "home invasion" scenario. Everyone I know who has been robbed, including myself, were robbed when they weren't home. One of the few things that was stolen from me was my safe, probably looking for a gun (I didn't have one at the time). My friend was robbed, he wasn't home, and all that was stolen was his gun safe, a smaller one for a "home defense" weapon that was easy to reach. So in his case, a couple new firearms on the street, so he could feel safe. Now he keeps his firearms in a large safe that is not easy access.

The cowboy protecting himself is a television idea. Rarely does that happen. Thieves aren't looking to die, they are looking for easily stolen, his street value material. Breaking in when no one is home and picking easy to walk away with items is way easier than trying not to confront you in the middle of the night. Even easier, stealing stuff off the porch.

But sometimes, they just want to steal your gun, which is usually easy to steal and easy to unload.

That same gun is really good at getting someone in your family shot for *thinking* someone is in your home, or a kid getting a hold of it. I'm lucky to be alive after my 10 year old cousin decided to show off his parents "self defense" gun when we were kids. They never once shot at anyone legally, but pretty sure they did illegally (very racist, white trash family members).

While true that 99% of burglars prefer to do their dirty work while nobody is home, your notion that somebody using a firearm to protect themselves is "a television idea" is nonsense. There are plenty of statistics to prove otherwise. In a 30 second Google search, I found a stat that in 2012 alone, private citizens used a firearm in "justifiable homicide" 258 times per the FBI.

I probably went to 15-20 "home invasion" calls in my career and all but 1 or 2 of them was drug related. Basically, both the "victims" and the suspects were involved in the drug trade. Needless to say, the suspects knew the victims had either drugs, money or both and they wanted it. That being said, home invasions and burglaries of occupied homes do occur (just Google La Jolla home invasion) and this is a situation of.....better to have a firearm and not need it than to need one and not have it. If you feel otherwise, it's your right NOT to own/purchase/possess a firearm.

 

[Redman]

As a firearms instructor currently for the fed gov't and Marine Corps

Note to self: Do not mess with @skyungjae

 

[BonsaiNut]

I've got a bump-stalk. It doesn't have anything to do with firearms, however

Was in the Army when I carried a 45 and M-16 on a daily basis. However for home I have a Benelli M2 with pistol grip. Nothing crazy fancy, but it gets the job done. Strangely, my wife asked me to get something for home defense during the LAST disease outbreak panic - for ebola.

 

[Sidewalk]

While true that 99% of burglars prefer to do their dirty work while nobody is home, your notion that somebody using a firearm to protect themselves is "a television idea" is nonsense. There are plenty of statistics to prove otherwise. In a 30 second Google search, I found a stat that in 2012 alone, private citizens used a firearm in "justifiable homicide" 258 times per the FBI.

Also in a 30 second search:

• From 2006-2016, almost 6,885 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings. In 2016 alone, there were 495 incidents of accidental firearm deaths.
• Accidental gun deaths occur mainly in those under 25 years old. In 2014, 2,549 children (age 0-19) died by gunshot and an additional 13,576 were injured.
• Adolescents are particularly susceptible to accidental shootings due to specific behavioral characteristics associated with adolescence, such as impulsivity, feelings of invincibility, and curiosity about firearms.

 

[skyungjae]

Bad grammar. I'm currently a firearms instructor for the fed gov't. I was previously an instructor for the USMC at Camp Pendleton (Wilcox 102, 103, and Horno 214).

It's interesting how different the philosophy of training is. For DHS components, their focus is more on effective combat accuracy and getting rounds on target as quickly as possible. The idea is minimizing the time it takes to identify the threat, draw, get on target, and stop the threat. So we measure how much time it takes rather than having a set amount of time to fire a certain number of shots. The qualifications courses typically do have set times per courses of fire, but that's really more administrative so the agency can check a box that the officer/agent is proficient enough to carry. I'll be honest though... some of these folks have the worst weapons handling and shooting I've ever seen yet they're exempt from most gun laws.

In the Corps, you'd have a certain amount of time to shoot a specific course of fire. Of course, everyone games it and uses all the time allotted which results in unreal tight groups from the talented shooters. I have a lot of training scars from this type of shooting because it was the first way I learned to shoot. For regular qualification courses, I have no issue shooting perfect scores, but as soon as we do run and gun shot clock stuff, I'm a below average shooter.

I think they both have their merits, and I'm all about people finding what works best for them. Though the Marine Corps style of marksmanship is a bit old school, it has proven very effective on the battlefield. Invading a city and defensive pistol shooting in a house are two entirely different things though.

 

[Maderas84]

Taught by Hollywood? As a firearms instructor currently for the fed gov't and Marine Corps, it always irks me when people make the claim that you don't have to aim a shotgun. The most tacticool looking officers/agents geared up looking like they're about to invade Fallujah fail shotgun quals from time to time. Most buckshot, the go to self defense load, is going to have a spread less than 3" at 10 yards. You still need to aim, but aiming is easier with a buttstock when shooting from a static position.

Long guns (shotguns and rifles), in general, have a much easier learning curve than pistols so it does make sense for a lot of people to select them as their first go-to defensive weapon. However, I always recommend training and a handgun for home/self defense in the city and suburbs. The rationale behind this is a handgun is simply more versatile. It's not cumbersome indoors, you can easily conceal it which has MANY advantages, and it can be deployed quickly. The downside is it takes a lot more training to be proficient with a handgun than it does a long gun.

Since OP has LEO guidance, I'm assuming he's already recommended accessories and ammo. If not, I highly recommend a weapon mounted light for the Sig and Benelli. I can't cite the statistic, but off the top of my head, the majority of defensive firearms altercations happen in low light scenarios. Low light doesn't necessarily mean night or pitch black. It can be a parking garage, inside a house with closed blinds, etc... Target identification is really important for anyone about to pull a trigger. Legally, you will be liable for any round that damages property or causes bodily injury. It's good to know what you're aiming at before making a decision that's going to change your life forever.

Have fun finding a comfortable holster. All the air marshalls I know have drawers full of holsters.

Thanks and you are correct.

I've been doing a lot of reading and absorbing a ton of information from my LEO pals. I look forward to getting out to shoot shortly as soon as the M4 is in my hands - that's the only firearm so far that I have officially purchased and is on its way to me - every other shop has cancelled my order because their website was not current with inventory. I'm glad to have finally found one. A few goodies were already ordered and I'm equally looking to installing them- learning quite a bit watching youtube videos.

I hope to find a P226 soon.

Thanks for all the responses and feedback everyone.

ON SIDE NOTE: do you have any suggestions for a light mount and light? I see most M4's with a Surefire flashlight on them.

 

[mtbMike]

Also in a 30 second search:

• From 2006-2016, almost 6,885 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings. In 2016 alone, there were 495 incidents of accidental firearm deaths.
• Accidental gun deaths occur mainly in those under 25 years old. In 2014, 2,549 children (age 0-19) died by gunshot and an additional 13,576 were injured.
• Adolescents are particularly susceptible to accidental shootings due to specific behavioral characteristics associated with adolescence, such as impulsivity, feelings of invincibility, and curiosity about firearms.

That was not part of the discussion. I was addressing your statement regarding people protecting themselves is a TV fantasy. A statistic never counted is how many people were saved from injury *merely* by the intended victim brandishing a firearm, shooting but not killing the suspect and/or the fact that the bad guy knew the good guy had a firearm. None of those statistics are even captured at all. https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhs...uld-include-how-guns-save-lives/#3d6df5b65edc

 

[skyungjae]

Thanks and you are correct.

ON SIDE NOTE: do you have any suggestions for a light mount and light? I see most M4's with a Surefire flashlight on them.

You can't go wrong with Surefire. Specs wise, they aren't the best, but they are the "Apple" of the tactical light world. There are a lot of accessories, parts, and good warranty support. Just be careful to not accidentally buy a knock off. Counterfeit Surefires all over the place even Amazon.

 

[mtbMike]

So I leave IMTB and go over to my FB feed where an ex-cop partner of mine (now a firefighter) posts a story about a broad daylight home invasion in the Arlington Heights area of Chicago from two days ago. The ARMED homeowner killed one of the guys and fought off the other, some of it caught by their security camera. https://www.chicagotribune.com/subu...0200407-mhgurji635b37hghgalk4cnrdu-story.html

 

[pperrelle]

I've personally never known anyone to have been a victim of a "home invasion" scenario. Everyone I know who has been robbed, including myself, were robbed when they weren't home. One of the few things that was stolen from me was my safe, probably looking for a gun (I didn't have one at the time). My friend was robbed, he wasn't home, and all that was stolen was his gun safe, a smaller one for a "home defense" weapon that was easy to reach. So in his case, a couple new firearms on the street, so he could feel safe. Now he keeps his firearms in a large safe that is not easy access.

The cowboy protecting himself is a television idea. Rarely does that happen. Thieves aren't looking to die, they are looking for easily stolen, his street value material. Breaking in when no one is home and picking easy to walk away with items is way easier than trying not to confront you in the middle of the night. Even easier, stealing stuff off the porch.

But sometimes, they just want to steal your gun, which is usually easy to steal and easy to unload.

That same gun is really good at getting someone in your family shot for *thinking* someone is in your home, or a kid getting a hold of it. I'm lucky to be alive after my 10 year old cousin decided to show off his parents "self defense" gun when we were kids. They never once shot at anyone legally, but pretty sure they did illegally (very racist, white trash family members).

Just because you don't know anyone that has been a victim of a home invasion does not mean that they do not happen. And I agree that most thieves would rather not encounter a homeowner while they are stealing your stuff in the same way that a homeowner does not want to encounter a thief in their home, but it does happen fairly frequently. There are several examples of an armed homeowner protecting themselves during a robbery and in a lot of cases the person breaking in was armed. What would've happened if the homeowner wasn't. I bet the homeowner is happy to not find that out.

 

[pperrelle]

Bad grammar. I'm currently a firearms instructor for the fed gov't. I was previously an instructor for the USMC at Camp Pendleton (Wilcox 102, 103, and Horno 214).

It's interesting how different the philosophy of training is. For DHS components, their focus is more on effective combat accuracy and getting rounds on target as quickly as possible. The idea is minimizing the time it takes to identify the threat, draw, get on target, and stop the threat. So we measure how much time it takes rather than having a set amount of time to fire a certain number of shots. The qualifications courses typically do have set times per courses of fire, but that's really more administrative so the agency can check a box that the officer/agent is proficient enough to carry. I'll be honest though... some of these folks have the worst weapons handling and shooting I've ever seen yet they're exempt from most gun laws.

In the Corps, you'd have a certain amount of time to shoot a specific course of fire. Of course, everyone games it and uses all the time allotted which results in unreal tight groups from the talented shooters. I have a lot of training scars from this type of shooting because it was the first way I learned to shoot. For regular qualification courses, I have no issue shooting perfect scores, but as soon as we do run and gun shot clock stuff, I'm a below average shooter.

I think they both have their merits, and I'm all about people finding what works best for them. Though the Marine Corps style of marksmanship is a bit old school, it has proven very effective on the battlefield. Invading a city and defensive pistol shooting in a house are two entirely different things though.

I used to shoot a lot of IDPA and USPSA events that were a lot of fun. I liked IDPA better as it was geared a little more towards actual threats as opposed to just target practice. Below is a video of a pretty basic stage.

For any new firearm owners out there, I would recommend taking a safe handling class followed by an IDPA class once you've learned to handle the firearm safely. Lots of good tips and instruction to be had.

 

[Maderas84]

I used to shoot a lot of IDPA and USPSA events that were a lot of fun. I liked IDPA better as it was geared a little more towards actual threats as opposed to just target practice. Below is a video of a pretty basic stage.

For any new firearm owners out there, I would recommend taking a safe handling class followed by an IDPA class once you've learned to handle the firearm safely. Lots of good tips and instruction to be had.

 

[kazlx]

Hey, if there's anytime that's advantageous to being a criminal, it's when everyone and their mom is walking around with their face almost completely covered I would think...

It's just like anything else, there's always people on both extremes. There's people that salivate over 'give me a reason' for whatever reason, along with people that think guns are evil for whatever reason. I don't think (hope) that's the majority. I'm familiar with my weapons, as well as my wife. I don't even want to think about the drama to follow of having to fire a weapon indoors, nevermind at someone or potentially killing them, (especially in CA). But, I'm also a relatively logical adult and realize that other people do bad things to innocent people for absurd or unknown reasons and like many, would prefer not to be on the receiving end with no recourse. I sure as hell wouldn't want to kill some teenager breaking into my house to steal a tv or xbox or whatever else, but I'm also not naive enough to think that drugs/intelligence/whatever else don't have a huge factor in driving people's motives. It's definitely not unheard of for middle/upper class neighborhoods to be targeted for any number of reasons. There's always statistics, but it's more than a statistic when it happens to you. Many people live their whole life and never have their house burn down, but when you do, it can ruin your life and turn your world upside down. When you work at a fire dept, you see it all the time.

What would happen right now if we had a large earthquake today or tomorrow or next week? You better believe the lunacy would go to 11....

 

[buggravy]

It's definitely not unheard of for middle/upper class neighborhoods to be targeted for any number of reasons. There's always statistics, but it's more than a statistic when it happens to you.

This is sort of what prompted my thoughts of owning a gun, after many years of wanting nothing to do with them. We don't live in a swanky neighborhood or anything, but it's nice, it's quiet, and it's not adjacent to any unsavory areas. One road in and out of the neighborhood, and very low crime. About 6 months ago there was a home invasion in a house I can see from my bedroom window. There have been a couple other burglaries in the 5 years that we've lived here, but this was a full on middle of the night, family at home, held up at gunpoint deal. I don't know the family that it happened to well at all, but they seem quite normal from outward appearances. Don't know any more of the story, or how it resolved, but that was close to home, literally and figuratively. I was talking to a neighbor about it, and that I was giving some consideration to getting a gun. He then told me that he had PTSD as a kid after finding his dad's (a cop) gun, playing with it, and accidentally discharging it. I've literally never spoken to a single person who successfully defended themselves with a gun, or even been in a position close to it, but I can think of at least 5 who were part of an incident where a kid discovered and accidentally fired a gun, a couple with disastrous consequences. Yet, there is still part of me that feels compelled to have a gun. I suppose the math/statistics will never pencil out, and it's just a matter of whatever gives you the most peace of mind. Not quite sure where I fall on that yet.

 

[kazlx]

Yes, obviously your experiences shape your decisions. I never grew up around firearms and had to learn most of it myself. My dad is the jack-of-all-trades type and so we always had BB guns and pellet rifles, along with knives and all that. I was always taught fairly well how to handle 'dangerous' things from a pretty young age. I don't think my dad is really opposed to guns, but to my knowledge he doesn't own any. I think it's also a bit of a false equivalency to think that all cops are competent with firearms. It's part of their job, but there are a lot that don't like them and only do the bare minimum. I've talked with plenty of instructors that can go on long rants about how terrible officers can be with handling/shooting skills and anything else having to do with their duty weapon. My kids are still pretty young, but I plan on taking them out fairly early and introducing them. I don't want them to be scared or overly curious, but to understand the ramifications. I've already had several discussions with my older one about what to do if he finds a weapon either at home or anywhere else.

Your story is definitely not *that* uncommon. You can't predict all outcomes, but you can try to be prepared for certain situations. I know this whole situation has made me realize I need to be a bit more prepared. Not in the giant underground bunker sort of way, but definitely make sure some things are organized and have some backups for essentials.

 

[BonsaiNut]

Yes, obviously your experiences shape your decisions. I never grew up around firearms and had to learn most of it myself. My dad is the jack-of-all-trades type and so we always had BB guns and pellet rifles, along with knives and all that. I was always taught fairly well how to handle 'dangerous' things from a pretty young age. I don't think my dad is really opposed to guns, but to my knowledge he doesn't own any. I think it's also a bit of a false equivalency to think that all cops are competent with firearms.

I spent enough time with firearms in the military to say I am intimately familiar with some of them. Intimate in terms of I lived with them, slept with them, cared for them, etc. I can close my eyes and feel my M-16. Sounds weird until you have done it... and then it doesn't sound weird at all.

When I recently bought my shotgun (about five years ago) for me it was a non-event. I bought a shotgun, installed a gun locker, picked up the gun, and stripped it, cleaned it, rebuilt it, and took it to the range. Same 'ole, same 'ole. Felt like old times. When my son heard I had bought a shotgun he was all excited. So I taught him gun safety. I took him to the range. He had to go through the safety steps every time he pulled the trigger. Then we went home and I taught him to strip the gun and clean it. Then after we were done, I left the room and he did it all over again. It was my attempt to de-mystify the gun and to establish it as what is - a tool.

I personally am more scared when I fire up my big chainsaw than when I go to the range with my shotgun.

 

[herzalot]

Frankly, I can't help but smile anytime a home-invasion is thwarted by a better-prepared homeowner. If the criminal is shot dead in the act, I shed no tears. That said, I also know the dangers of weapons in the home, the cases of accidental shooting and the fact that if you pull your gun, you better be prepared to use it.

Good luck to all y'all!