The battle of two personalities

SnakeCharmer

SnakeCharmer

iMTB Hooligan
Where cycling is concerned, I have two loves.

Yesterday, I disassembled my Paradox V3 and reassembled my Trek Fuel EX. I did this to compare the two. I've had enough miles on this new, latest/greatest hard tail to get to know it well. And it was time to compare it to my all time favorite bike frame, EVER. My quest is for ONE mountain bike. THE perfect mountain bike (for me).

This morning, I took the FEX on it's first ride since it's reincarnation. And yep, of course I took it to Cherry Canyon. I don't think of that this place as the most-bestest place ever, it just happens to be close and it does have some fun stuff. Furthermore, I know the place like the wrinkles on my forehead.

I've always been a hard tail guy. The positive input in turning the cranks on a hard tail is blissful to me. Getting beat up through the chatter & chunder is not. But I do like to stand up and hammer periodically. Something you cannot do on a full suspension bike without the penalty of suspension bob. If you are not a hard tail rider, you might not be able to relate.

The Paradox V3 is without a doubt the most capable hard tail frame I've ever ridden. And it's fairly cush for a hard tail. Not quite steel cushy, but certainly better than other aluminum hard tails I have owned. However, the frame itself might be a bit too large for me even though it's the smallest size offered. That and this newest/new tweak in geo is a bit overboard, IMO, meaning my legs feel a bit too far underneath me due to the steepish STA. The Jabberwocky had a better quality ride but it had limitations. I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to roll through any tech on the Paradox that I would roll through on any AM full suspension bike. It gobbles everything up, but at the cost of getting beat up a bit. Like any hard tail would do.

Well, it only took about one block of pedaling to rediscover my love for the FEX. However, I noticed the suspension bob immediately. On the fire road climbs, the bobbing was less noticeable but it was still there. I have to admit that I readjusted to that sensation rapidly though. The flow and magic carpet ride supplied by the FEX had my soul smiling. I was faster through the techy sections thanks to the better tracking of the rear suspension, and I wasn't even trying.

Something I did notice about the FEX is that I got pitched forward once or twice while I was going through the twisty turns at speed when I needed to brake a bit. I need to stay a little farther back on this bike. That's something that never happens on the paradox. Another thing I noticed is that the front end feels a little bit lighter on the FEX. Perhaps it's the shorter wheel base. The FEX flicks better than the Paradox, again likely due to it's shorter wheel base, even though it's over a pound heavier. And about the FEX's weight. It's heavy carrying it out to the street but it doesn't ride or pedal heavy. That's something that the paradox made me realize about it during today's ride.

So, I will ride the FEX for a while. No plans to unload the PV3 at this point. They are two different animals and I guess I will leave it at that for now. I just wonder if I will start feeling like the PV3 won't have a home after I get in a few hundred miles on the FEX...
 
Another chapter in The Tao of the Hardtail

I have two 29er hardtails that I ride frequently.
Both are Specialized, because that's what I could get good deals on at the shop where I used to work.
Both bikes use XT drivetrains and brakes.
The Chisel is a 3.9lb alloy frame, compliant, set up with a suspension-corrected rigid, carbon, fork. Somewhat slack for an xc bike at ~69°
100mm Gravity Dropper.
The Fuse never gets weighed. Stiff and over-built, 140mm coil fork. 66.5°
150mm PNW post.
Talk about two personalities!
If the Chisel is a deer, the Fuse is a Moose.
But, the Chisel is the teacher. Any mistake while riding is instantly corrected or you'll spend detention taking a dirt nap. Handling must be firm, but no death grips. Vision is rewarded, distraction leads to pain.
The Fuse is the rowdy student. Spicoli vs Mr. Hand. I drop the post and hang onto the front wheel and fork while the rear-end self-corrects and jackhammers. The fun is off the charts!
The teacher may disapprove, but "Damn it! That boy's having a blast!"
 
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I was expecting this to be about me as well, but then, I think everything is or should be about me. :oops:

Speaking of me, I can relate to your preference for one bike. But as @mike said and you know well, there’s no perfect bike - they are all a collection of pluses and minuses. People like @Runs with Scissors just call it a bike. It does what it does, and he doesn’t know and/or doesn’t care about what it doesn’t do.

Then there are people like me who buy a bike that is best suited to the part of riding I like best, and tolerable at the other parts. It will never help me overcome my weaknesses. Then there are those who buy a bike to do just that - compensate for their weaknesses.

The majority on IMTB have bikes of different flavors for a variety of riding experiences. You are one of these, but you only want one bike. Good luck with that!

I think it’s interesting that @Faust29 and you have recently rediscovered the joy of full suspension after a long time on hardtails. That applies to some degree to @buggravy as well, but then he went all in-betweener on us.

Interesting thread - First World Problems!
 
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herzalot said:
People like @Runs with Scissors just call it a bike. It does what it does, and he doesn’t know and/or doesn’t care about what it doesn’t do.
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You say that like it's a bad thing. I feel all dissed and stuff. :laugh:

I get that there are those who must have the adrenaline rush of inviting/challenging death when they ride a bike. Really, I get it. There was a time when I had the same inclination, just not on a bicycle.

So yeah, I know what it doesn't do, and no, I don't care what it doesn't do - because it does what I do. To each their own. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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mike said:
That's what helps keep traction on rough uphills. Pedal bob is one thing, but inactive suspension is dead weight. May as well wrench your HT back up if smooth surfaces are where you judge a MTB.
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Just how rough does a rough uphill have to be before you consider it a rough uphill? Because, I do not lock out my suspension unless I am climbing on hard pack that is not dissimilar to pavement, AKA, MOST fire roads.
 
SnakeCharmer said:
Just how rough does a rough uphill have to be before you consider it a rough uphill?
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If my suspension makes it easier I consider it rough. Anything not pretty smooth?

A range of shocks/options, no doubt, exist which would give you different and possibly a more-suitable options than your present setup. Since the FEX is there to stay, you might as well dial it. Consider getting with a tuning shop about your needs and preferences. I've used Avalanche Racing twice and am happy with what they did for us. Once from the ground up and once with an existing shock.

Are you sure you don't simply need more air and/or adjustment to make it pedal firmer?
 
mike said:
If my suspension makes it easier I consider it rough. Anything not pretty smooth?

A range of shocks/options, no doubt, exist which would give you different and possibly a more-suitable options than your present setup. Since the FEX is there to stay, you might as well dial it. Consider getting with a tuning shop about your needs and preferences. I've used Avalanche Racing twice and am happy with what they did for us. Once from the ground up and once with an existing shock.

Are you sure you don't simply need more air and/or adjustment to make it pedal firmer?
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I am one of those who runs slightly less air on purpose in my shocks and forks, for the cushion effect. It is what it is. There are a few of us here that do this. I'm not alone.
 
SnakeCharmer said:
I am one of those who runs slightly less air on purpose in my shocks and forks, for the cushion effect. It is what it is. There are a few of us here that do this. I'm not alone.
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Oh crap - I think we have something in common. I run my suspension much softer than the suggested settings.

Most of the modern full suspension systems use some type of mechanical magic to minimize monkey motion (anti-rise, anti-squat). Even a true single pivot like the Superlight referred to above stiffens naturally while climbing due to chain growth. One system with no built in mechanical climbing advantage is Horst Link (FSR). That makes them pretty plushy plush on the downs and allows them to deal with braking bumps pretty well. (Speshy, GG, Transition, Norco, Knolly...)

So that introduces suspension stiffening gimmicks to stop unwanted movement. Some "lockouts" do just that. They pretty much lock the shock well above the sag point, but allow a blow-off for hard hits. Other systems are more like "suspension calming" rather than lock outs. This is Cane Creek and Avalanche's philosophy and is becoming more common than a true lockout.

The real problem now is the fork. I can stabilize my Megatower for out of saddle climbing by using the "lockout" switch on the shock and the three-position switch on the fork. But on the Revel (which has the same shock), I have no way to calm the fork. If I stand to pedal, I need to be super smooth, or just deal with a 170mm pogo stick. I don't have the RCT3 on the Revel's Lyrik. The Revel stays very calm as long as I stay seated.

All that said - if you like the way a hardtail climbs chunky stuff, you probably won't like a full squish (until you notice the increase in traction on roots and rocks).
 
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Runs with Scissors said:
You say that like it's a bad thing. I feel all dissed and stuff. :laugh:
So yeah, I know what it doesn't do, and no, I don't care what it doesn't do - because it does what I do. To each their own. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
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Nope - not a bad thing. A source of pride for you and a bit of envy for the rest of us. You are truly about the ride, never about the equipment. You know what you like and like what you know. :thumbsup:
 
mike said:
LOL!

Why not just do what you're doing – ride one frame awhile then enjoy the other? One perfect MTB doesn't exist. Two can co-exist like they do in most IMTBT forum member homes. Sorry to kill the drama... :rolleyes::geek:
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^^^

I read the first half of this thread as we were zooming down the 5 on the way back from San Francisco. This comment made the most sense to my sleep deprived brain. I'll keep reading the rest, but this is the golden ticket so far. From my viewpoint, he just needs enough parts to keep 2 bikes going at all times. Switch back and forth more often, and the jolt isn't as bad.

It's a liberating feeling to go out to the garage in the morning and do an "eenie meenie miney mo" and take the bike that your pointer finger lands on.

Oh... And if I had to choose one bike, it would not be the monkey motion machine... Now, pardon me while I go read some more about that slacked out Kona Honzo which could replace the Hightower in my lineup. :p
 
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SnakeCharmer said:
The newest forks and shocks have moved away from true lock outs. They are designed to give when enough force is applied. So, even when "locked out" I can easily detect motion in the rear suspension pivots. Hell, I can nearly detect every grain of sand I roll over. :facepalm:
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Not on my Spark, it's very firm......the shocks of course;)
 
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