Shockwiz Help!!!

[Titus]

I just put a new fork and shock on my bike, and borrowed a shock wiz to help get them dialed. The problem I'm having is interpreting the data at the most basic level. I.E., in picture 1 my baseline air pressure is in the red on the 'remove air' side of the continuum.

Interpretation 1: I need to add air to move it toward the 'ok' part of the continuum
Interpretation 2: I need to remove air to move to toward the 'ok' part of the continuum.

Same questions for other categories. High speed compression (not in attached pic) was in the red on the 'speed up' side. Does that mean I need to speed it up or slow it down? Add a spacer or lose a spacer?

Pic 2 is of the fork after riding at Laguna Cnyn this am. Looks like I used about 75% of travel.

 

[Obsidian]

I have never used one, but I would read it as you need to remove air, add a spacer, slow the rebound and soften the compression.

 

[Y-not]

There are steps to set up the shock wiz to your specific bike. Did you "calibrate" ?
What tuning style are you using ?
Efficient ? Playful? Etc...

 

[Sidewalk]

First of all, you can click on each "slider" to get a more in depth explanation of what you need to do. It will even suggest how many "clicks" (though that is just a suggestion).

-Add a volume reducer, and remove air. Try and get it to a reasonable sag based on what the fork manual suggests.
-Add a couple of clicks of LSR to slow down the rebound.
-Reduce the LSC a couple of clicks to make it softer.

Don't over think it, it is actually telling you what to do when it says "Add spacers" and "Remove air".

 

[Titus]

There are steps to set up the shock wiz to your specific bike. Did you "calibrate" ?
What tuning style are you using ?
Efficient ? Playful? Etc...

Yes--followed all the steps for my bike, calibrated it correctly, etc. Tuning style is set at balanced.

 

[Titus]

First of all, you can click on each "slider" to get a more in depth explanation of what you need to do. It will even suggest how many "clicks" (though that is just a suggestion).

-Add a volume reducer, and remove air. Try and get it to a reasonable sag based on what the fork manual suggests.
-Add a couple of clicks of LSR to slow down the rebound.
-Reduce the LSC a couple of clicks to make it softer.

Don't over think it, it is actually telling you what to do when it says "Add spacers" and "Remove air".

Thanks! That's what I thought--it's just throwing me off a bit because Fox suggests 90 for the fork, I set it at 85, and reduced it even more to 81.5 for the most recent ride and it's still showing in the red. I was hesitant to remove even more air. I did click on the slider, but still wasn't sure what to do because I didn't know how to interpret the initial readings.

 

[Titus]

Obsidian and Sidewalk are correct. The guys at shock wiz just got back to me (see below). It's funny because I asked some riders at Laguna today how to interpret the data, and they were split 50/50.

From Shockwiz rep:

Thank you for reaching out! When interpreting the Shockwiz suggestions page, you should perform the action that is closest to the pip. For example, in the case of your screenshot you would remove air to bring the baseline air pressure pip closer to the center OK mark.

I recognize that there are two ways that the suggestions graph can be interpreted and we are currently working with the app design team to improve the user interface within the Shockwiz app.

 

[CBone]

I know nothing about the Shockwiz.
But, the name does remind me of the electric fence challenge back on the farm.

 

[Sidewalk]

FYI: the amount of travel used is a useless metric...unless you are using too much travel for the given conditions. Anyone who gives you the advice "you should use full travel once a ride" or anything similar should NOT be used for any sort of advice.

You should rarely use full travel. It's usually a sign that I messed up.

 

[Titus]

FYI: the amount of travel used is a useless metric...unless you are using too much travel for the given conditions. Anyone who gives you the advice "you should use full travel once a ride" or anything similar should NOT be used for any sort of advice.

You should rarely use full travel. It's usually a sign that I messed up.

Agreed. I think the only time I blew through all my front and rear travel was riding in St. George, Utah.

 

[herzalot]

Thanks! That's what I thought--it's just throwing me off a bit because Fox suggests 90 for the fork, I set it at 85, and reduced it even more to 81.5 for the most recent ride and it's still showing in the red. I was hesitant to remove even more air. I did click on the slider, but still wasn't sure what to do because I didn't know how to interpret the initial readings.

Fox (36 Factory) recommends somewhere around 90 psi for my weight. I ran mine at 60, making sure to decrease rebound damping accordingly. Perfect-ish! Fox' recommendations are laughable. I never run any high speed compression. Fully open. With Fox, I would need a token or two to ramp up appropriately while still keeping the top of the travel relatively supple. But still not very supple. So then I had to add a Luftkappe to make it plush. That worked pretty well. Still ran about 60 psi.

Then I just bought a Lyrik and solved the problem.

 

[herzalot]

FYI: the amount of travel used is a useless metric...unless you are using too much travel for the given conditions. Anyone who gives you the advice "you should use full travel once a ride" or anything similar should NOT be used for any sort of advice.

You should rarely use full travel. It's usually a sign that I messed up.

You're a racer, so I would guess you run your fork a little stiffer than most mortals. But I agree - it's stupid to say you should use full travel once a ride if you ride trails like - oh, I don't know, @Runs with Scissors likes to ride. But if I have solid hits and G-outs, I don't want to leave much suspension on the slider.

 

[Obsidian]

Fox (36 Factory) recommends somewhere around 90 psi for my weight. I ran mine at 60, making sure to decrease rebound damping accordingly. Perfect-ish! Fox' recommendations are laughable. I never run any high speed compression. Fully open. With Fox, I would need a token or two to ramp up appropriately while still keeping the top of the travel relatively supple. But still not very supple. So then I had to add a Luftkappe to make it plush. That worked pretty well. Still ran about 60 psi.

Then I just bought a Lyrik and solved the problem.

You are just a Fox hater. Fox is pretty clear that they are just recommended starting points.

I fall into the 75psi recommended range and I have mine at 60psi according to my preferred shock pump. I don't even believe all shock pumps give the same readings. I have two, and they read differently.

 

[bvader]

Interesting. I'm in the process and hopefully nearing the end of tuning, my new pike with the charger 3 damper.

The 6-year-old 150 mm Pike I have on the Bronson is an absolute magic carpet ride!

But with I was really struggling with the rockshox trailhead suggestions and some other stuff I read.

Pike 130mm on the Spur

First thing it turned out and Mattie at the pro bike confirmed. It took me a good 100 to 150 mi to break it in.

I've been thinking about to test out it shockwiz

At the beginning when I was anywhere near rockshox suggestion while I was riding a brick!!!! Killing me brutalizing me!

And I know from my past not to do that but I was just struggling.

Then I just went to simple, Open the rebound completely, found some rocky and some stairs and just tuned the air to where it felt pretty good off the top.

Ended up around 70PSI, 15-18 PSI less than recommended

But then I realized just recently I was doing a really something stupid / rookie and one of the reasons that was keeping me from really getting where I want.

Complete stupid rookie move.

chambers so I pump it up and feel it and then of course in the first 10 or 15 minutes a ride it would change when those equalized.... And so I was going from too soft to too firm.

I put in some volume spacers but didn't equalize so it softened out. Bizarre.

Now I'm being really careful.

Now I'm running at 70. Took out the volume spacers.. although I'm toying with moving down to like 65 and put it in one spacer.

I'm running the rebound equivalent to what trail has says for that PSI but also maybe two clicks faster rebound seems a bit slow.

And then it's kind of cool. You can actually feel the LSC and the HSC on the new charger damper. I started open open but now toying.

If I make the shock a little soft I can put a little HSC on it to not blow through a big hit...

And then if I want to firm up the climb I just turn up the LSC

But I still am toying with it and I am thinking about the shock was I saw the place that rented them.

What this has to do with Fox and your fork. Probably nothing but...

A) It may take a little to break in

B) Make sure your equalizing the pressure or you may bounce back and forth.

PS ; been trying to figure out why the recommendations always run so high pressure. Maybe it's because it's pro-riders and they're protecting or be. They just don't want us amateur riders bottoming out. I don't know what it is.

That was a whole lot

 

[herzalot]

You are just a Fox hater. Fox is pretty clear that they are just recommended starting points.

I fall into the 75psi recommended range and I have mine at 60psi according to my preferred shock pump. I don't even believe all shock pumps give the same readings. I have two, and they read differently.

View attachment 88341

I have had far more difficulty getting any Fox fork to behave the way I want it to and have had much success with recent (2020 +) Rock Shox models. So that has nothing to do with brand hating - and everything to do with my experience. I have owned 4 Fox 36s from 2008-2021 - all top of the line. I have also owned a Fox 32 Talas - which was actually pretty good. I had two Fox 40s that were pretty good - but I was between available springs - one was too soft, the next too firm. I owned a 2013 Rock Shox Boxxer WC Air that was Sh!t. Not THE Sh!t - just Sh!t.

I have also demo'd about 6 bikes with Fox 36 and a few with Lyriks or Pike. The RS forks were much easier to get along with on the demo ride than the Fox.

My two (2020 and 2021) Lyriks were superb right out of the box.

So when you say "Fox hater" it's not about fandom, it's about experiences. Clearly my opinion is not shared by many, as Fox still has the bulk of the market.

That said - I was riding with my friend Scott a week or so ago and some pre-teen boys rolled up on their Super 73s. They admired my Revel and then one said to Scott "and I like your bike even better. It has Fox!" So yeah - 12 year old boys who ride emotorcyles prefer the blingy Fox!

 

[bvader]

I don't mind close to bottoming out when I know I hit something big... That's the way it should be.... But when I'm pushing hard in medium chunk I want 80%

 

[Obsidian]

I don't mind close to bottoming out when I know I hit something big... That's the way it should be.... But when I'm pushing hard in medium chunk I want 80%

I like about 1/4 inch left on my fork and shock after a good run down Ridgeline, Rockit or Luge.

 

[Y-not]

Fox (36 Factory) recommends somewhere around 90 psi for my weight. I ran mine at 60, making sure to decrease rebound damping accordingly. Perfect-ish! Fox' recommendations are laughable. I never run any high speed compression. Fully open. With Fox, I would need a token or two to ramp up appropriately while still keeping the top of the travel relatively supple. But still not very supple. So then I had to add a Luftkappe to make it plush. That worked pretty well. Still ran about 60 psi.

Then I just bought a Lyrik and solved the problem.

Changed the elastomers to a spring in my Rock Shock Mag 21, and it worked great !!!

 

[Titus]

I appreciate all the feedback. The shockwiz is really helpful, but it's easy to go down a rabbit hole. Also, because I am replacing a fork and shock, everything feels so much better than the old set-up so it's more challenging to feel where I need to make adjustments. I didn't realize how much my old set-up had deteriorated because it happened gradually.

Good to know folks are running below the recommended psi. I'm going to let out some air and add a token per shockwiz, and then do a Lynx/Rockit/cholla loop.

 

[Y-not]

I appreciate all the feedback. The shockwiz is really helpful, but it's easy to go down a rabbit hole. Also, because I am replacing a fork and shock, everything feels so much better than the old set-up so it's more challenging to feel where I need to make adjustments. I didn't realize how much my old set-up had deteriorated because it happened gradually.

Good to know folks are running below the recommended psi. I'm going to let out some air and add a token per shockwiz, and then do a Lynx/Rockit/cholla loop.

Rabbit hole. . . . . that's funny
I have 5 bikes, 3 full squish, 2 hardtails, for a total of 8 suspension components. There are 20 trails up here that I want to tune my suspension for. That's 160 sessions on the shockwiz. . . . . . Yes, I know the rabbits on a first name basis.
This doesn't include the bike parks.

 

[Tom the Bomb]

Something to consider. The pros at the suspension shops that I frequent say that you do not want more than 15-18% sag up front. I struggled with harshness at this setting. I called rockshox and they said 20-25% I did that and it was way better. As stated above recommended settings usually are much to high. My shock wiz got me in the ballpark. I still had to do some minor adjustments to get it where I liked it even when shock wiz said perfect. That being said. Setting shock sag can be a tricky task especially with the slack geo of todays bikes. I found that the fork bushings bind a bit when just sitting on the seat or trying to set sag in the attack position. Every time I rechecked it I got a different reading. This was very frustrating. So I use a technique where I sit on the top tube next to the seat post . Now my settings are consistent. By sitting on the top tube I engage the fork sag consistently. Try it you may like it.
Good luck.

 

[Titus]

Rabbit hole. . . . . that's funny
I have 5 bikes, 3 full squish, 2 hardtails, for a total of 8 suspension components. There are 20 trails up here that I want to tune my suspension for. That's 160 sessions on the shockwiz. . . . . . Yes, I know the rabbits on a first name basis.
This doesn't include the bike parks.

May the force be with you. Just doing one bike has been more than enough for me. Spent an hour yesterday going up and down rock gardens to get an accurate reading.

 

[Titus]

Something to consider. The pros at the suspension shops that I frequent say that you do not want more than 15-18% sag up front. I struggled with harshness at this setting. I called rockshox and they said 20-25% I did that and it was way better. As stated above recommended settings usually are much to high. My shock wiz got me in the ballpark. I still had to do some minor adjustments to get it where I liked it even when shock wiz said perfect. That being said. Setting shock sag can be a tricky task especially with the slack geo of todays bikes. I found that the fork bushings bind a bit when just sitting on the seat or trying to set sag in the attack position. Every time I rechecked it I got a different reading. This was very frustrating. So I use a technique where I sit on the top tube next to the seat post . Now my settings are consistent. By sitting on the top tube I engage the fork sag consistently. Try it you may like it.
Good luck.

Thanks, Tom. I'm going to spend tomorrow am trying to get it dialed.

 

[bvader]

I have never done front suspension by sag always by feel.

This from the guy that wasn't equalizing the positive and negative so take that for what it's worth LOL!

 

[DangerDirtyD]

I cant help but think of incontinence when I see this thread.

 

[herzalot]

I appreciate all the feedback. The shockwiz is really helpful, but it's easy to go down a rabbit hole. Also, because I am replacing a fork and shock, everything feels so much better than the old set-up so it's more challenging to feel where I need to make adjustments. I didn't realize how much my old set-up had deteriorated because it happened gradually.

Good to know folks are running below the recommended psi. I'm going to let out some air and add a token per shockwiz, and then do a Lynx/Rockit/cholla loop.

Rock It may be one of the best suspension test runs ever! Foot-deep holes at speed, along with some fun leftsy rightsy turns and a short techy climb. Lynx has more braking bumps, however there are a couple of good drops and g-outs at the end. Lynx is also a great suspension test track!

 

[bvader]

@herzalot

See what you and the peer pressure did to me.

Wife out of town... I should be riding mellow....

Heading to Aliso... To do a easy ride..

Next thing I know I'm riding Rockit on the new Spur!

70 PSI on the 130 pike

First time down in a while and first time on the new bike... The suspension was a bit stiff. Some of the holes were bigger and some of the lines were changed especially heading into the step up.

Overall a decent run but felt different on the 130 bike... A bit too firm.. I hit a couple of those holes pretty hard and still had some suspension left.

The pike is doing pretty well on the small stuff where I felt it is once I got into mid to late travel it was still a bit too stiff.

And then I climbed Mathis... And yep that's still sucks!

And I thought let's do it again... But then duh I've been riding around with my big pack and the shock pump in the back but I did not have it with me because I wasn't going to ride anything like that.... So I did the worst thing ever... And I really knew if it didn't work I wasn't going to ride... I'd let a tiny psst out of the fork which is really dangerous in the sense it can let way too much out but somehow I got a tiny bit... Turned out to be about 3 lbs

So I worked the shock a bit to get the positive negative evened and then a rode RockIt again.

It felt better. I think I could actually go a full 5 lb down...

The second time I Also remember the lines better. It was a about the same time but it was a smoother more in controlled ride. still didn't get the step up

The bike screams on the top section... Little bit rough through the rock garden But then in the twisties I have to pay attention. It just wants to go fast, fast fast. It's like what the bike is built for.

Anyways, I think I'm going to go down to 65 PSI and try again... If it feels good on the top and now the pike is feeling pretty good on the top... If it feels really good all around but a little too soft mid and bottom. I'll put a single token in it.

I still might want to try shockwiz just to see what it's like.. and just to hear my wife GAFAW!!! At the name... She gets no end of delight making jokes about the dropper post!

 

[herzalot]

@herzalot
The pike is doing pretty well on the small stuff where I felt it is once I got into mid to late travel it was still a bit too stiff.

So if it's ramping up too much, wouldn't you want to remove a spacer? Either that or leave the spacers and reduce air pressure. I wouldn't add a spacer.

 

[bvader]

So if it's ramping up too much, wouldn't you want to remove a spacer? Either that or leave the spacers and reduce air pressure. I wouldn't add a spacer.

Thanks...

With all my rambling it wasn't clear... It's a still little too firm overall still (or perhaps more accurately if I can squeeze out a little more plushness) and there is no spacers so I'm going to reduce the pressure a bit more... Then if it bottoms out I will add one spacer. I prefer not to use a spacer so to keep it more linear if I can.

 

[bvader]

Ohh and @herzalot

Allegedly one of the hallmarks or new features of the Charger 3 is better midstroke support so I think that's still too firm there, which is kind of backwards from the past..

Charger 3 is a completely different beast.... Both from construction which i can't really comment on but it does feel definitely feel different from my Charger 2s at least for my amateur assessment.

Very Detailed look at the New Pikes / Lyric etc

Sorry @Titus for the thread Hack... curious to hear after you apply the Wiz suggestions how you feel it did. Thinking about renting one...