It’s Hard For Me To Defend Mountain Bikers

This kind of reminds me of the CLUELESS encounter I had while climbing the switchbacks at San Juan last Saturday. As I was just rounding the third or fourth switchback I can hear a group of riders barreling down towards me. As soon as I hear them I start shouting "rider up, rider up!". The first rider is already around his switchback and railing down towards me. He doesn't hear cause his boombox is blaring. Finally he sees me and skids to a stop about 5' in front of me. Two more riders skid to a stop running into him and each other. None of them move out of the way, not even an inch. I keep pedaling and as I am riding by the first rider, I clipped his bar on purpose. He barks at me about it and I bark right back at him. Telling him it's his duty coming down to give way for the rider going up hill. He apologies and moves his bike, a little. The two guys behind him kept their bikes in the middle of the trail. I was able to ride around them, but I said something to them too. As all this is happening two more clowns, I mean riders in their group pull up skidding to a stop. So, I am now pedaling towards them and already past the first three riders. The clown starts yelling at me to get out of the way. Yeah right buddy, I kindly remind him of the trail etiquette as I am pedaling by him. He yells at me "hey, at least we stopped , we didn't need to do that". I just responded with have a good ride and don't forget to yield to uphill traffic. I bet every single one of you's can guess the ethnicity of this group of clowns. Always clueless on the trail.
 
UPSed said:
One bad apple spoils the bunch applies to every user group out there. According to Strava there are at least 140 people that ride AT. Unfortunately the more people that ride it the higher the odds someone is going to cut corners for whatever reason. It was like this way before Strava.

BTW @hill^billy remember several years ago when you wanted more people to ride AT? Careful what you wish for. ;)
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Anyone with common sense, and there aren’t very many, knows that one guy riding a trail will not burn it in. Knowing this of course, I started turning on folks who knew nothing about the trails exsitance but at the same time said keep it on the down low know, but thats not human nature, I knew full well people would tell others, and then there is strava. Although I am very pleased at how it has turned out in regards to how long it took to becoming more popular. As @rossage mentioned the trail has a history, I was very surprised how many never heard of it.
“Bad apple” is always a standard answer, my point is that with the more apples, baskets start overflowing, and more bad apples are mixed in, magnifying the damage caused by the apples before them.
AT is the most resilient trail I have ever seen, in many places the trail sanitizes itself, the word on the network is that it can be ridden immediately after it rains, and it can, by about ten riders, that makes 20 barely notice tracks for an out and back.
The place has been soaked more than I have seen in a long long time, and on Presedents Day mob of , I got the day off, work sucks and it’s been raining to much, I have not been riding so let’s hit AT. Well actually it wasn’t good for it an hour or two after the rain, if that many are going to ride it it needs a day to soak in, with as many tires on it there is alot of noticeable damage. I’ll say it again, and I am part of it, but I simply think the sport has become to big . I know my attitude bothers some of the people I ride with.
There are 3 trails I can mention for examples of transformation. Leprechaun, a very changed trail in a short amount of time, I’m seeing rapid transformation on Boy Scout, with more change coming. The Shuttle trail in Frazier Park, big time change! And the last frontier AT. It is what it is! I accept it. Whatever stress I have had will quickly dispurse on the trail I get to enjoy for hopefuly 5 more years, I believe it will disapear due to there is a trail over there I can ride that I don’t have to work on.
 
Redman said:
This kind of reminds me of the CLUELESS encounter I had while climbing the switchbacks at San Juan last Saturday. As I was just rounding the third or fourth switchback I can hear a group of riders barreling down towards me. As soon as I hear them I start shouting "rider up, rider up!". The first rider is already around his switchback and railing down towards me. He doesn't hear cause his boombox is blaring. Finally he sees me and skids to a stop about 5' in front of me. Two more riders skid to a stop running into him and each other. None of them move out of the way, not even an inch. I keep pedaling and as I am riding by the first rider, I clipped his bar on purpose. He barks at me about it and I bark right back at him. Telling him it's his duty coming down to give way for the rider going up hill. He apologies and moves his bike, a little. The two guys behind him kept their bikes in the middle of the trail. I was able to ride around them, but I said something to them too. As all this is happening two more clowns, I mean riders in their group pull up skidding to a stop. So, I am now pedaling towards them and already past the first three riders. The clown starts yelling at me to get out of the way. Yeah right buddy, I kindly remind him of the trail etiquette as I am pedaling by him. He yells at me "hey, at least we stopped , we didn't need to do that". I just responded with have a good ride and don't forget to yield to uphill traffic. I bet every single one of you's can guess the ethnicity of this group of clowns. Always clueless on the trail.
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Sorry! It is what it is!
 
Redman said:
This kind of reminds me of the CLUELESS encounter I had while climbing the switchbacks at San Juan last Saturday. As I was just rounding the third or fourth switchback I can hear a group of riders barreling down towards me. As soon as I hear them I start shouting "rider up, rider up!". The first rider is already around his switchback and railing down towards me. He doesn't hear cause his boombox is blaring. Finally he sees me and skids to a stop about 5' in front of me. Two more riders skid to a stop running into him and each other. None of them move out of the way, not even an inch. I keep pedaling and as I am riding by the first rider, I clipped his bar on purpose. He barks at me about it and I bark right back at him. Telling him it's his duty coming down to give way for the rider going up hill. He apologies and moves his bike, a little. The two guys behind him kept their bikes in the middle of the trail. I was able to ride around them, but I said something to them too. As all this is happening two more clowns, I mean riders in their group pull up skidding to a stop. So, I am now pedaling towards them and already past the first three riders. The clown starts yelling at me to get out of the way. Yeah right buddy, I kindly remind him of the trail etiquette as I am pedaling by him. He yells at me "hey, at least we stopped , we didn't need to do that". I just responded with have a good ride and don't forget to yield to uphill traffic. I bet every single one of you's can guess the ethnicity of this group of clowns. Always clueless on the trail.
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You had me at "boombox". :thumbsup:
 
evdog said:
It's your trail if you take ownership and make it your trail. You can block off the cut corners with brush, dig a big hole to prevent people from riding through, or grab some extra hands and plunk a big ass rock to block the line. Make it too big of a hassle for the offenders to remove it. Their problem, aside from their ignorance, is usually laziness. For the new lines they've cut you can rake out the tire marks to hide them, and block the line if necessary. The problem, as you say, is people will follow them. But if you can stay on top of it you might head that off and people will get the message to stay on the trail. Signs sometimes work, sometimes they don't. If you do nothing then you'll have nothing to do but complain. Do something about it and you will hopefully end some of the behavior which is very satisfying.
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I take it you have not ridden AT? I am one guy, as of now there are only two guys who keep in touch and are still interested in its maintenance, the others were more interested in changing it, I on the other hand like it just the way it was origianaly built, a genius designed it, in the begining maintaining it was low due to the station fire, but with the beautiful rain it will explode to life, do I have time to fix stupid? Great! Now I have to make time :bang:
 
hill^billy said:
Anyone with common sense, and there aren’t very many, knows that one guy riding a trail will not burn it in. Knowing this of course, I started turning on folks who knew nothing about the trails exsitance but at the same time said keep it on the down low know, but thats not human nature, I knew full well people would tell others, and then there is strava. Although I am very pleased at how it has turned out in regards to how long it took to becoming more popular. As @rossage mentioned the trail has a history, I was very surprised how many never heard of it.
“Bad apple” is always a standard answer, my point is that with the more apples, baskets start overflowing, and more bad apples are mixed in, magnifying the damage caused by the apples before them.
AT is the most resilient trail I have ever seen, in many places the trail sanitizes itself, the word on the network is that it can be ridden immediately after it rains, and it can, by about ten riders, that makes 20 barely notice tracks for an out and back.
The place has been soaked more than I have seen in a long long time, and on Presedents Day mob of , I got the day off, work sucks and it’s been raining to much, I have not been riding so let’s hit AT. Well actually it wasn’t good for it an hour or two after the rain, if that many are going to ride it it needs a day to soak in, with as many tires on it there is alot of noticeable damage. I’ll say it again, and I am part of it, but I simply think the sport has become to big . I know my attitude bothers some of the people I ride with.
There are 3 trails I can mention for examples of transformation. Leprechaun, a very changed trail in a short amount of time, I’m seeing rapid transformation on Boy Scout, with more change coming. The Shuttle trail in Frazier Park, big time change! And the last frontier AT. It is what it is! I accept it. Whatever stress I have had will quickly dispurse on the trail I get to enjoy for hopefuly 5 more years, I believe it will disapear due to there is a trail over there I can ride that I don’t have to work on.
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It sucks.....and anyone who has been doing it long enough knows, with or without social media.....things change. Friends were always gonna tell other friends about certain trails. It was happening long ago. It just didn't seem as bad because there weren't as many riders.

Be happy that your trail is still on the outskirts, and while there were a few "dicks" riding it, the amount of traffic on it is still minimal. This topic was recently discussed when it came down to Palm Canyon. How up until the shuttle companies started running regular trips up there, the trail remained in it's glory. Now with the shuttle co's making multiple weekend runs up there, the trail is showing its wear....and not for the good.

Yeah, the sport have become too big, unfortuneately there is nothing any of us can do about that.

But people suck....there is no way around that. The "Me" generation all need a good asshwippin'. I wish I had the solution for you.
 
Redman said:
This kind of reminds me of the CLUELESS encounter I had while climbing the switchbacks at San Juan last Saturday. As I was just rounding the third or fourth switchback I can hear a group of riders barreling down towards me. As soon as I hear them I start shouting "rider up, rider up!". The first rider is already around his switchback and railing down towards me. He doesn't hear cause his boombox is blaring. Finally he sees me and skids to a stop about 5' in front of me. Two more riders skid to a stop running into him and each other. None of them move out of the way, not even an inch. I keep pedaling and as I am riding by the first rider, I clipped his bar on purpose. He barks at me about it and I bark right back at him. Telling him it's his duty coming down to give way for the rider going up hill. He apologies and moves his bike, a little. The two guys behind him kept their bikes in the middle of the trail. I was able to ride around them, but I said something to them too. As all this is happening two more clowns, I mean riders in their group pull up skidding to a stop. So, I am now pedaling towards them and already past the first three riders. The clown starts yelling at me to get out of the way. Yeah right buddy, I kindly remind him of the trail etiquette as I am pedaling by him. He yells at me "hey, at least we stopped , we didn't need to do that". I just responded with have a good ride and don't forget to yield to uphill traffic. I bet every single one of you's can guess the ethnicity of this group of clowns. Always clueless on the trail.
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Sounds like Cheeseboro. With the growing popularity there are a lot of new riders there. There are also a lot of new riders on ebikes even though it's posted that they are illegal at every entrance to the park. A few weeks ago I was going down one of the trails and I saw a group of ebikes coming up. I slowed to yield and the first rider felt he had to mention they had the right of way. I informed him that they were there illegally so that right does not apply to them. He mumbled something then sped off. Literally.

Just to be clear I agree with Doug 100%. It sucks that there are those out there that could give two sh¡ts about anyone else. Unfortunately I think the only way around that would be to buy a private island and have our own Mountain Bike Park.
 
UPSed said:
Sounds like Cheeseboro. With the growing popularity there are a lot of new riders there. There are also a lot of new riders on ebikes even though it's posted that they are illegal at every entrance to the park. A few weeks ago I was going down one of the trails and I saw a group of ebikes coming up. I slowed to yield and the first rider felt he had to mention they had the right of way. I informed him that they were there illegally so that right does not apply to them. He mumbled something then sped off. Literally.

Just to be clear I agree with Doug 100%. It sucks that there are those out there that could give two sh¡ts about anyone else. Unfortunately I think the only way around that would be to buy a private island and have our own Mountain Bike Park.
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I used to! It has been good and still is, just saying, everything has it’s begining and end result. My reason for the post.
 
mtnbikej said:
It sucks.....and anyone who has been doing it long enough knows, with or without social media.....things change. Friends were always gonna tell other friends about certain trails. It was happening long ago. It just didn't seem as bad because there weren't as many riders.

Be happy that your trail is still on the outskirts, and while there were a few "dicks" riding it, the amount of traffic on it is still minimal. This topic was recently discussed when it came down to Palm Canyon. How up until the shuttle companies started running regular trips up there, the trail remained in it's glory. Now with the shuttle co's making multiple weekend runs up there, the trail is showing its wear....and not for the good.

Yeah, the sport have become too big, unfortuneately there is nothing any of us can do about that.

But people suck....there is no way around that. The "Me" generation all need a good asshwippin'. I wish I had the solution for you.
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It’s good to hear some validation from another, this is odvious and can’t be denied, which seemingly will not end well at least in this state? Sad news for PCE, when I saw jumps being built it sickened me! That is what sky park is for?
 
hill^billy said:
I take it you have not ridden AT? I am one guy, as of now there are only two guys who keep in touch and are still interested in its maintenance, the others were more interested in changing it, I on the other hand like it just the way it was origianaly built, a genius designed it, in the begining maintaining it was low due to the station fire, but with the beautiful rain it will explode to life, do I have time to fix stupid? Great! Now I have to make time :bang:
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I have ridden it actually, maybe 5-6 years ago with you, Rossage, Mikie, Tom the bomb. I know it is a lot of work to maintain a trail. I have a whole network down here and do most of the maintenance on it myself. It does take a lot of time, but is also very rewarding. I guess the question to you is, how important is it to you to keep the trail in a certain condition? If very important, then get out there and deal with the worst spots at least. If you do nothing that is up to you too. Just be thankful that trail is where it is, and not down in OC or other area that is accessible to large numbers of riders.
 
evdog said:
I have ridden it actually, maybe 5-6 years ago with you, Rossage, Mikie, Tom the bomb. I know it is a lot of work to maintain a trail. I have a whole network down here and do most of the maintenance on it myself. It does take a lot of time, but is also very rewarding. I guess the question to you is, how important is it to you to keep the trail in a certain condition? If very important, then get out there and deal with the worst spots at least. If you do nothing that is up to you too. Just be thankful that trail is where it is, and not down in OC or other area that is accessible to large numbers of riders.
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Sorry I did not remember! I have been doing just that for awhile now, and as for thankful? You may have an idea. There is a reason I live here.
 
Faust29 said:
why does a trail need to stay alive?
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Ok... I'll play Faust to your Mephisto...

Because if we are all truly living in the moment, shouldn't that moment be glorious? I understand that trails come and go... but does that mean we should stop caring about the status of the trails here and today? Even with the most conscientious attention, trails have good days and bad. We train, we ride, we fix our bikes, we shore up the trails... all for that one special ride... when it really is glorious!

We can't stop people from being selfish and ignorant. I myself have been both. But if everyone just shrugged their shoulders and said "who cares - it'll all be gone tomorrow" where would that leave us? I work the trails when I can... enjoy them when I am able... but I also try to respect my fellow man and their efforts to keep a trail polished, or a campsite neat, or a plant uncrushed.

The first rule I learned in Boy Scouts... always leave nature better than you found it.
 
BonsaiNut said:
Ok... I'll play Faust to your Mephisto...

Because if we are all truly living in the moment, shouldn't that moment be glorious? I understand that trails come and go... but does that mean we should stop caring about the status of the trails here and today? Even with the most conscientious attention, trails have good days and bad. We train, we ride, we fix our bikes, we shore up the trails... all for that one special ride... when it really is glorious!

We can't stop people from being selfish and ignorant. I myself have been both. But if everyone just shrugged their shoulders and said "who cares - it'll all be gone tomorrow" where would that leave us? I work the trails when I can... enjoy them when I am able... but I also try to respect my fellow man and their efforts to keep a trail polished, or a campsite neat, or a plant uncrushed.

The first rule I learned in Boy Scouts... always leave nature better than you found it.
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Just a little clarification... I never hinted that HillBilly shouldn't care. He does... Quite passionately. Nothing we say will change that. And it shouldn't. Wasn't trying to. And I never hinted that behaviors out there don't piss me off. They do. What I was trying to say in a roundabout way is that times change, people change, rider groups change, as does their education level. The land, however, will be there long after we're gone. That's not an "I don't care" mentality. It's actually at the heart of some obscure and long forgotten philosophy... :whistling: If someone cares about a trail like AT, figure out a way to convey what's acceptable and what's not to the people riding it. Education, corner cutting barriers, etc... It's more effective than pining about the good ol' days and lamenting the evil Strava and social media.

Example... I ran into two teenagers on brand new bikes on the Twisted Tire Trail in O'Neill not long ago. I was climbing and they were bombing down. One cut a switchback, which took him out of my path. I stopped to chat with the second. While I was doing so, the lead rider came back. I spent about 15 minutes talking with the kids about their "cool new bikes" (Diamondbacks...), and then we segued into trail etiquette... It was a twofer. We covered right of way and switchback cutting. :thumbsup: I've run into those kids several times since, and now it's "Hey- How are you doing?" and "Where ya riding today?". Pretty impressive from a generation of video gamers! I wonder how the relationship would have developed if I'd taken the "Damn kids, get off my lawn" approach?
 
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Great way to approach it, Steve. Not sure I would have had the patience.

Faust29 said:
I wonder how the relationship would have developed if I'd taken the "Damn kids, get off my lawn" approach?
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Probably something like this.....

20190218_104938.jpg
 
Faust29 said:
Just a little clarification... I never hinted that HillBilly shouldn't care. They. He does... Quite passionately. Nothing we say will change that. And it shouldn't. Wasn't trying to. And I never hinted that behaviors out there don't piss me off. They do. What I was trying to say in a roundabout way is that times change, people change, rider groups change, as does their education level. The land, however, will be there long after we're gone. That's not an "I don't care" mentality. It's actually at the heart of some obscure and long forgotten philosophy... :whistling: If someone cares about a trail like AT, figure out a way to convey what's acceptable and what's not to the people riding it. Education, corner cutting barriers, etc... It's more effective than pining about the good ol' days and lamenting the evil Strava and social media.

Example... I ran into two teenagers on brand new bikes on the Twisted Tire Trail in O'Neill not long ago. I was climbing and they were bombing down. One cut a switchback, which took him out of my path. I stopped to chat with the second. While I was doing so, the lead rider came back. I spent about 15 minutes talking with the kids about their "cool new bikes" (Diamondbacks...), and then we segued into trail etiquette... It was a twofer. We covered right of way and switchback cutting. :thumbsup: I've run into those kids several times since, and now it's "Hey- How are you doing?" and "Where ya riding today?". Pretty impressive from a generation of video gamers! I wonder how the relationship would have developed if I'd taken the "Damn kids, get off my lawn" approach?
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Ok, you got me, I’m the dick.
 
I have worked on AT. I have promoted AT. I can't help but feel and know that Dougie is pointing a lot of the grown popularity of AT towards me because I have indeed promoted AT a lot.

Who here on this site has been riding AT since 1993? Anyone? Show of hands... Mine is up.

The boom of mountain biking is past. Past.

The big boom of mountain bikes was during it's discovery days combined with a big crash in the aerospace industry in the early to mid 90's. CNC machine shops were scrambling to find stuff to manufacture and when mountain biking EXPLODED in the early 90's, the world of anodized CNC machined bike parts also exploded. At any given MTB XC race there would be 40 sometimes even 50 racers per class all slamming some poor trail in anywhere USA. Snow Summit parking lot on a Sunday would have no open parking spaces on race days.
I have seen 30 people on AT on any given day back in the 90's. It was my number one time trial, prepping and conditioning for my racing years. It seems like there were less Dicks then but they existed.

AT went dormant for many years. I met Doug in 2012 on STR and discovered we had a trail in common. Acton Trail. So I have taken THE BEAST out there and we cleaned house on the lower sections. I have worked on the upper section in the snow. I have not been as active as others in extending it towards the top. There are a few who have worked really hard on that trail... for years.

When Jackwad Mike, the guy who was over sanitizing Golden Eagle came on the scene, I absolutely came unglued! I mean to the point I was going to slash this guys tires and report him to the Ranger for illegal trailwork (which I would be guilty of as well) I'm embarrassed about that now. I even got a call from the President of CORBA because I was totally out of control. @Kanga 's words of wisdom helped me a LOT! God bless him!

He said, "Mikie, don't worry about the trail. The trail is going to take care of itself. Mother nature will expose more boulders, grow more roots, and plants, and limbs and ruts and bumps. Every trail will take a beating from time to time but over time it changes and changes and changes. It's always going to change. It's going to be okay. So lighten up."

That actually helped a lot! I was humbled and schooled. The heavy rains has brought back the little chunk that is on GE, and now I need to get up and trim the narrowing trail section by section. Every thing Jackwad Mike had done is now gone. Everything is okay.

Pointing out an ethnic group is not the answer. There is White Trash, Brown Trash, Yellow Trash, Red Trash, Black Trash, Men Trash, Woman Trash, Young Trash Old Trash, should I go on?

Every group has it's good it's bad and it's ugly. Get over it all. Be a good example. Respond don't react.

Acton Trail is going to be just fine.
 
Mikie said:
Pointing out an ethnic group is not the answer. There is White Trash, Brown Trash, Yellow Trash, Red Trash, Black Trash, Men Trash, Woman Trash, Young Trash Old Trash, should I go on?
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Don't forget the Prussians and the Lithuanians. And the Swedes - that's on my father's side, and we know we can't trust ANYONE from Sweden!


P.S. I think I've found my new biking shoes!
 
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