Help! Beginner - 27.5+ Hardtail or FS 27.5

D

DannyUmana

Newbie with Hope!
Hello,

I am excited about getting into MTB and I have used my friends FS bike up la tuna canyon/wildwood and other trails near Burbank/Glendale ( I live in the San Fernando Valley so anything near) . I am purchasing my bike soon. I went into a local REI store to ride some bikes and really like the following (within my budget in mind, I am sure their are better options). I know based on my research that sometime it comes down to preference whoever what is a more usable bike for all trails in socal? I am new and the more I read up on it the less I can commit to decide. I am leaning more to a FS only because I don't plan to be buying another bike. Thank you for all the help and support and feel free to give me any advise or suggestions.

Full Suspention
GHOST Kato FS 3 27.5 Bike - 2017
https://www.rei.com/product/109724/ghost-kato-fs-3-275-bike-2017
on sale till 29th

Hardtail +
Co-op Cycles DRT 2.1 Bike - 2017
https://www.rei.com/product/106335/co-op-cycles-drt-21-bike-2017
on sale till 29th

Cannondale Cujo 2 27.5+ Bike - 2017
https://www.rei.com/product/109124/cannondale-cujo-2-275-bike-2017
On sale till 29th
 
The good news is that all the bikes are in the same weight range. I think the 27.5 will probably pedal nicer as the 27.5+ wheels will be heavier. If you are a newb, that really isn't an issue since you really have nothing to compare it to long term.

Of the 3 bikes listed above, the Co-Op is the only one that is 11 spd....the other 2 are 10 spd.

It really comes down to what YOU wanna ride. Some people will tell you that you have to have FS. Others like myself ride HT's all over. The +tires will help with the lack of rear suspension in some cases.

Bottom line....it comes down to what bike fits YOU the best. Try them all out and see how you feel on each one.

I would also check into some of the local LBS's.....the 2018 models will begin to roll in so they will be willing to deal on the 2017's they have on the floor. There are others on this board who are up in that neck of the woods and could probably recommend a good shop.
 
@DannyUmana ,
Hey first off, welcome to imtbtrails. You picked the first thing right already. A good mountain bike forum. This place is full of top notch MTB'er that really know their stuff.

I am an FS'er. Even back in the 90's on my Proflex racing XC! Most hardtails today handle incredible Singletrack, but I'm a single bike rider so I expect everything out of my one bike. I still ride a 26'er and have 5 inches of travel front and rear. It climbs and descends very well.

My suggestion is seek the bike you feel best on climbing. You will spend most of your time doing that as oppose to dropping some Singletrack.

Also, don't be afraid to look at used bikes, depending on your budget, looking at used bikes can get you more bang for your buck if you know what you are looking for. Take a friend who really knows bikes so you are not taken advantage of.

You are smart to research, ride a lot of demos to understand what works best for you! And stay tuned in to imtbtrails!
Get that bad boy and let's ride some hero dirt!
 
DannyUmana said:
Hello,

Hardtail +
Co-op Cycles DRT 2.1 Bike - 2017
https://www.rei.com/product/106335/co-op-cycles-drt-21-bike-2017
on sale till 29th
Click to expand...
Hi Danny U, I think I like the Co-Op the most. Seems like most bang for your buck with good components. I like hardtails and ride on mostly smooth trails, so I'm biased that way over FS bikes.

For the same price, there's a really nice Jamis Dragon in SD right now: https://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/bik/6092201271.html Built with heat-treated 853 thin-walled steel... mmmm good! Doesn't fit B+ tires, so if you have your heart set on that size, look elsewhere.
 
Thank you all for the input I really appreciate it. I ended up riding all of the ones I mentioned and some others and just really liked the feel of the Kato 3 FS. So I bit the bullet and purchased it.

The co-op bike was really good I just learned through riding different bikes today that I prefer FS.

Looking forward to future discussions on the forum. Now to find a trail to break the bike in
 
Last edited:
DannyUmana said:
Thank you all for the input I really appreciate it. I ended up riding all of the ones I mentioned and some others and just really liked the feel of the Kato 3 FS. So I bit the bullet and purchased it.

The co-op bike was really good I just learned through riding different bikes today that I prefer FS.

Looking forward to future discussions on the forum. Now to fine a trail to break the bike in
Click to expand...


Most riders start on a FS bikes.
A few will realize that Hardtail is their calling. Others end up riding FS permanently.
Your first MTB is an initial step into the sport. What works for you today may not be ideal in a year.
Hopefully, you will realize how awesome the sport, and your first bike will lead to your next bike.
 
DannyUmana said:
Thank you all for the input I really appreciate it. I ended up riding all of the ones I mentioned and some others and just really liked the feel of the Kato 3 FS. So I bit the bullet and purchased it.

The co-op bike was really good I just learned through riding different bikes today that I prefer FS.

Looking forward to future discussions on the forum. Now to fine a trail to break the bike in
Click to expand...

Just consider it your latest bike. :geek: Believe me, bike envy and upgrade-itis will set in soon enough.:whistling:
 
They are right, now that you have a bike all you can think about is what will be that next +1 bike for the stable.

You aren't too far from me. I can introduce you to rides around LA like: Sullivan, Backbone, Dirt Mulholland, JPL . Those will be some of the closest rides to you, and are beginner friendly. Hit me up when you are sufficiently geared up and ready. Tip #1 don't cheap out on protecting your brain.
 
Welcome to the club! It's a fun hobby, and has been life changing for some of us... It looks like you picked a solid bike to get started and get out there!

As the others have said, there's a few more things to think about now. I never leave home without a few essentials on the bike: helmet, spare chain links, spare tube, multi-tool, water, electrolytes, etc... In the winter months, I was also taking extra clothes for any trip into the mountains. The weather has been unpredictable this year.

And as this is a full suspension bike, you'll need someone with a shock pump to help you get it dialed in. Or pick one up and experiment on your own. :thumbsup:

I'm in south Orange County, but ride all over. :thumbsup:
 
MrGreedom said:
They are right, now that you have a bike all you can think about is what will be that next +1 bike for the stable.

You aren't too far from me. I can introduce you to rides around LA like: Sullivan, Backbone, Dirt Mulholland, JPL . Those will be some of the closest rides to you, and are beginner friendly. Hit me up when you are sufficiently geared up and ready. Tip #1 don't cheap out on protecting your brain.
Click to expand...

That would be awesome! What gear would you recommend? whats a good helmet?
 
Faust29 said:
Welcome to the club! It's a fun hobby, and has been life changing for some of us... It looks like you picked a solid bike to get started and get out there!

As the others have said, there's a few more things to think about now. I never leave home without a few essentials on the bike: helmet, spare chain links, spare tube, multi-tool, water, electrolytes, etc... In the winter months, I was also taking extra clothes for any trip into the mountains. The weather has been unpredictable this year.

And as this is a full suspension bike, you'll need someone with a shock pump to help you get it dialed in. Or pick one up and experiment on your own. :thumbsup:

I'm in south Orange County, but ride all over. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Thank you I do need to plan for the essentials any recommendations on gear?
 
MrGreedom said:
They are right, now that you have a bike all you can think about is what will be that next +1 bike for the stable.

You aren't too far from me. I can introduce you to rides around LA like: Sullivan, Backbone, Dirt Mulholland, JPL . Those will be some of the closest rides to you, and are beginner friendly. Hit me up when you are sufficiently geared up and ready. Tip #1 don't cheap out on protecting your brain.
Click to expand...

Noticed your profile picture with a dog. Do you ride with your dog? I was definitely considering it not sure how that plays out. just thought I would ask.
 
Mikie said:
@DannyUmana ,
Hey first off, welcome to imtbtrails. You picked the first thing right already. A good mountain bike forum. This place is full of top notch MTB'er that really know their stuff.

I am an FS'er. Even back in the 90's on my Proflex racing XC! Most hardtails today handle incredible Singletrack, but I'm a single bike rider so I expect everything out of my one bike. I still ride a 26'er and have 5 inches of travel front and rear. It climbs and descends very well.

My suggestion is seek the bike you feel best on climbing. You will spend most of your time doing that as oppose to dropping some Singletrack.

Also, don't be afraid to look at used bikes, depending on your budget, looking at used bikes can get you more bang for your buck if you know what you are looking for. Take a friend who really knows bikes so you are not taken advantage of.

You are smart to research, ride a lot of demos to understand what works best for you! And stay tuned in to imtbtrails!
Get that bad boy and let's ride some hero dirt!
Click to expand...

Just wanted to say thank you
 
image.jpg
 
mtnbikej said:
The good news is that all the bikes are in the same weight range. I think the 27.5 will probably pedal nicer as the 27.5+ wheels will be heavier. If you are a newb, that really isn't an issue since you really have nothing to compare it to long term.

Of the 3 bikes listed above, the Co-Op is the only one that is 11 spd....the other 2 are 10 spd.

It really comes down to what YOU wanna ride. Some people will tell you that you have to have FS. Others like myself ride HT's all over. The +tires will help with the lack of rear suspension in some cases.

Bottom line....it comes down to what bike fits YOU the best. Try them all out and see how you feel on each one.

I would also check into some of the local LBS's.....the 2018 models will begin to roll in so they will be willing to deal on the 2017's they have on the floor. There are others on this board who are up in that neck of the woods and could probably recommend a good shop.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your advise. I tested the bikes thanks to your suggestion. Now to buy gear.
 
DannyUmana said:
That would be awesome! What gear would you recommend? whats a good helmet?
Click to expand...

I am a Roadie convert so I don't have as many years of wearing things out under my belt yet.
I went with the Bell Super 2R helmet for the removable chinbar to use on days I want to go to a bikepark or ride more aggressive DH. The ventilation is good, could be better (which is of utmost importance in the Summer). Mips is a good feature to look for in a helmet.
2nd most important will be your hydration. As a new rider you will most likely want to have a camel back. I carry 2L of water, and a bottle with electrolytes (tailwind is the forum fav)
And from there on it's an endless world of options to how performance centric your gear is. It all depends on what type of riding you are looking for in your recreation: casual nature rides, pure stoke, fitness, KOM chasing...
Always have the necessities that will allow you to make trailside repairs to save you from a shitty hike out. (Tube, multitool, pump/co2, chain quicklink) Your brand new bike might have even come with your first spare derailleur hanger.

DannyUmana said:
Noticed your profile picture with a dog. Do you ride with your dog? I was definitely considering it not sure how that plays out. just thought I would ask.
Click to expand...

She is a trail runner/hiker. She is 8 so can't really keep up with the bike. I have friends that will hike an area when I ride, so I'll send her with them. I couldn't trust myself riding with a dog by any exposed cliffs. That's a variable I wouldn't take on. But I do think about doing it inside of Sullivan Canyon.
 
@DannyUmana Welcome to the zoo! Good job picking your bike. :thumbsup:

Since you are going full suspension, I cannot over-emphasize how important it is to get your suspension set right. Most people ride with their suspension way too firm. There are two essential settings that work in tandem - air pressure and rebound damping. All forks and shocks are different, so none of us can suggest a starting air pressure. Only use a shock pump designed for air suspension. Your tire pump won't work.

I would suggest using the Rock Shox recommended setting for the fork, less 25%. Then set the rebound just slow enough to slow the fork's rebound a bit. Note that the more rebound damping you apply (turning clockwise on a red knob or dial) the SLOWER the rebound. Don't set it too slow, but you definitely don't want it snapping back (too fast). Then do the same in the rear shock. Air pressure first, then rebound setting. If your shock and fork are equipped with a "trail" or "lockout" setting, make sure it's set for DH when you do your air and rebound settings. Your local bike shop can help, but I doubt the REI guys have a ton of suspension tuning experience. I would love to help you get it set up right, but I am geographically undesirable.

Next is air pressure in the tires. I don't know your weight, and I don't know if your bike will be set up tubeless or if it will have tubes. Probably tubes. If so, try about 30-34 psi rear, 28-30 psi front. 20% less if they're tubeless.

As for riding gear, get a helmet that fits great. Then the biggest dilemma of all - a shoe-pedal combo. More has been written about Clip-In vs Flat pedals than almost any other topic in the universe. We'll save that for another post.
 
DannyUmana said:
Thank you all for the input I really appreciate it. I ended up riding all of the ones I mentioned and some others and just really liked the feel of the Kato 3 FS. So I bit the bullet and purchased it.

The co-op bike was really good I just learned through riding different bikes today that I prefer FS.

Looking forward to future discussions on the forum. Now to find a trail to break the bike in
Click to expand...
NEW BIKE DAY!
Congrats Danny!
 
herzalot said:
@DannyUmana Welcome to the zoo! Good job picking your bike. :thumbsup:

Since you are going full suspension, I cannot over-emphasize how important it is to get your suspension set right. Most people ride with their suspension way too firm. There are two essential settings that work in tandem - air pressure and rebound damping. All forks and shocks are different, so none of us can suggest a starting air pressure. Only use a shock pump designed for air suspension. Your tire pump won't work.

I would suggest using the Rock Shox recommended setting for the fork, less 25%. Then set the rebound just slow enough to slow the fork's rebound a bit. Note that the more rebound damping you apply (turning clockwise on a red knob or dial) the SLOWER the rebound. Don't set it too slow, but you definitely don't want it snapping back (too fast). Then do the same in the rear shock. Air pressure first, then rebound setting. If your shock and fork are equipped with a "trail" or "lockout" setting, make sure it's set for DH when you do your air and rebound settings. Your local bike shop can help, but I doubt the REI guys have a ton of suspension tuning experience. I would love to help you get it set up right, but I am geographically undesirable.

Next is air pressure in the tires. I don't know your weight, and I don't know if your bike will be set up tubeless or if it will have tubes. Probably tubes. If so, try about 30-34 psi rear, 28-30 psi front. 20% less if they're tubeless.

As for riding gear, get a helmet that fits great. Then the biggest dilemma of all - a shoe-pedal combo. More has been written about Clip-In vs Flat pedals than almost any other topic in the universe. We'll save that for another post.
Click to expand...

Thank you I am learning more everyday. MTB is one complex sport. I didn't expect that going in. lol I appreciate your wisdom
 
DannyUmana said:
Thank you I am learning more everyday. MTB is one complex sport. I didn't expect that going in. lol I appreciate your wisdom
Click to expand...
Uh oh... now you've done it. @mtnbikej, @Faust29 and @singlespeedrider will now chime in to talk about the simplicity of riding hardtail single speeds. Do not listen to them. They are mad. As in off their collective rockers! :confused: o_O

Don't believe me? Look at any of @mtnbikej ride reports. Scary. :eek:
 
herzalot said:
Uh oh... now you've done it. @mtnbikej, @Faust29 and @singlespeedrider will now chime in to talk about the simplicity of riding hardtail single speeds. Do not listen to them. They are mad. As in off their collective rockers! :confused: o_O

Don't believe me? Look at any of @mtnbikej ride reports. Scary. :eek:
Click to expand...


Hey now......I was "diplomatic" in my response to his original question. ;)

She nice @herzalot opened the door, I'll step in. There is a certain simplicity that come with HT's. No rear shock to tune, no sales propaganda on which rear suspension is better, no pivots to maintain.

Same goes for drivetrains....more gears, more issues. That is why everyone moved to 1x drivetrains.....eliminating the FD made everything much simpler. Actually the FD's just got in the way.
 
My opinion:

The Cannondale is out due to the low end brakes

The FS bike isn't really necessary for So Cal riding unless you have back, knee, hip, or joint issues.

The C0-op HT seems like a nice rig. Good component spec. This is the one I would go with of the three.
 
herzalot said:
Where you ridin? Trails that many of us ride look like this...

View attachment 28510

Yes, you can do them on a hardtail, but not nearly as well. :cool:
Click to expand...
That trail does not define mountain biking in So Cal. We are in "buff ST country" here and your example is the exception. One has to seek out trails like you have provided in your picture above. Ya gotta go to AZ or NV to reach a land where every trail is like the one in your picture above.

So Cal is HT land! :p
 
SnakeCharmer said:
That trail does not define mountain biking in So Cal. We are in "buff ST country" here and your example is the exception. One has to seek out trails like you have provided in your picture above. Ya gotta go to AZ or NV to reach a land where every trail is like the one in your picture above.

So Cal is HT land! :p
Click to expand...

Actually......that is pretty typical of trails in Laguna.
 
@SnakeCharmer my example is not the exception around here! I think we filter our trail knowledge based on our preferences. There are a lot of fireroads in SoCal, and I am told, lots of buff rock-free singletrack, but there are also a TON of chunky trails from the San Gabes to the Ortega Highway, including about 20 offerings in and around Laguna.

Point is, our hero in this thread @DannyUmana chose wisely for his interests. A decent full suspension bike with a moderate amount of suspension will serve him well as he experiments with a wide variety of trails to decide what he likes in mt. biking.
 
herzalot said:
@SnakeCharmer my example is not the exception around here! I think we filter our trail knowledge based on our preferences. There are a lot of fireroads in SoCal, and I am told, lots of buff rock-free singletrack, but there are also a TON of chunky trails from the San Gabes to the Ortega Highway, including about 20 offerings in and around Laguna.

Point is, our hero in this thread @DannyUmana chose wisely for his interests. A decent full suspension bike with a moderate amount of suspension will serve him well as he experiments with a wide variety of trails to decide what he likes in mt. biking.
Click to expand...
There is no unwise choice. Buying a mountain bike, whatever the style or model, is a wise, inexpensive investment in fun, entertainment, and fitness.

BTW, I have ridden the OC enough to know that there is mainly buff ST with chunky sections thrown in just like everywhere else in So Cal. I am referring to mileage, not quality. You ride 100' of buff ST to reach 10' of chunky ST. That is the So Cal ratio.
 
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