Good Read on Counterfeit Frames

mtnbikej

J-Zilla
Pretty good read here on counterfeit carbon frames.

At least it will make you think twice before you buy that unbranded Chinese knockoff.

<a class="postlink" href="http://velonews.competitor.com/not-all-frames-are-created-equal-a-look-deep-inside-the-carbon-in-counterfeit-bikes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://velonews.competitor.com/not-all- ... feit-bikes</a>
 
mtnbikej said:
Pretty good read here on counterfeit carbon frames.

At least it will make you think twice before you buy that unbranded Chinese knockoff.

<a class="postlink" href="http://velonews.competitor.com/not-all-frames-are-created-equal-a-look-deep-inside-the-carbon-in-counterfeit-bikes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://velonews.competitor.com/not-all- ... feit-bikes</a>

The old adage applies... You get what you pay for! I've been guilty of (trying) taking the cheap route in other endeavors, and it usually comes back to bite me.

As I read it, I was hoping that the differences would be minor, but that is damn scary!
 
Thieves should be drawn and quartered... Counterfeiters are a very special brand of thieves that endanger people as well as ripping them off. They steal from the consumer directly, they steal from the company whose products are being copied, they drive prices up to steal from all of us, and they put the consumer in danger (counterfeit wood floors emit toxic gasses, the bike frame featured can fail catastrophically, etc.). I used to think that knock off Gucci purses were a good idea, since 90% of the cost is for the image and not the quality of the bag, but even that has its overall cost to the integrity of the marketplace, and encourages the kind of dangerous knock-offs featured here.
 
I felt the same way about Chinese Carbon Rims.
Although I'm not all that drawn to being a weight weenie, I like at light bike. But not at the cost of safety or quality.
I will always be function over fashion and a big reason why I stick with Shimano/Fox/Name Brands. We trust our very lives to these products to enjoy our sport. I'm not willing to compromise that by saving a few bucks on an unknown manufacturer who has not been well established in the industry.
 
Side note - carbon rims offer a bumpier ride than aluminum, and aren't that much lighter... Some have called them a game changer though. To each his own.

and now back to our featured program - counterfeiters.
 
Have you guys seen any of these popping up on Craigs List marketed as the real deal?


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With all the people buying open mold frames...I'm sure the bike companies have to do something to convince people into not buying the OM frames. I'm not defending counterfeiting, but at the same time what Velosnooze published is only one frame. That one frame does not neccessarity represent all the OM frame makers. The one big mystery surrounding the OM frames is the QC...which is a big mystery. A test like this done with the better know OM frames would be cool...but I don't see that happening...since it would be very expensive. The people that buy the OM mold frames are taking a calculated risk...and I think the people that buy the frames know what they are potentially getting into. I took that chance a couple months ago. I searched for a while and found a frame with the geo I wanted. They supposedly are an "OEM" company. I've been on it for the past couple months...and so far...its still in one piece...and so am I. :mrgreen:


I'm taking about the blank open mold frames and not frames sold deliberately to fool you into thinking its a big brand.
 
Title should be read cheap imitation carbon. You can predict how a metal would perform at a glance, if you are familiar enough with the material and its grade. Even to someone extremely familiar with carbon construction, there's very little you can predict as to how it would perform until you have physical possession of it and can run it through tests like in that article. You can't even trust the weight figures, pictures, and test data, as they can very well lie about those too.

There's some decent finds out there, but the target customer pool that would do well with it is very limited (typically scrawny casual/beginner-intermediate skilled folk). I'd rather gamble on second hand carbon from a reputable brand, over no name carbon. Else, I'd stick to brands that actually hire real engineers and have generous warranties, waiting for deals if it's out of my budget.

On the other topic: carbon rims are a part of the 29er revolution. Stock 29er wheels are weak, flexy, and heavy. People have resorted to using 29 wheels similarly fashioned to what people on smaller wheeled bikes use for DH (ex. Stan's Flow rims), to get the stoutness they desired, but that didn't solve the weight issue. 29ers are what helped drive change to meet demands, including thru-axles, tapered steerers, short HT with internal style headsets, tubeless, light tires, varied fork offset and other geo workouts like bent seat tubes being more of a norm, higher quality short travel suspension, etc. It drove money spent on R&D through the roof, and those that didn't invest fell behind in the 29er race. They decided to take all the new tech and put it into smaller wheels to stay "up-to-date" (inc carbon rims), yet not need R&D to create a bike that rode well, unlike the crappy me-too 29ers that ruined peoples' impression of 29ers.
 
Varaxis said:
There's some decent finds out there, but the target customer pool that would do well with it is very limited (typically scrawny casual/beginner-intermediate skilled folk).

Thats a pretty big generalization. There are people out there that race the OM mold frames on a legitimate level that would disagree with you.
 
RS VR6 said:
Varaxis said:
There's some decent finds out there, but the target customer pool that would do well with it is very limited (typically scrawny casual/beginner-intermediate skilled folk).

Thats a pretty big generalization. There are people out there that race the OM mold frames on a legitimate level that would disagree with you.

Let me guess, you speak of cyclists that don't do well in races that are technically demanding, preferring less technical ones that rely mostly on rider fitness, who are also lightweight/scrawny.

Those imitation carbon products often have weight limits. I know from experience that if you get in contact with some of the more well known brands that are talked about on popular forums, one of the first things they ask you is how much you weigh when you ask about their product and if it is suitable for you. They know that heavy riders will find it to be a miss, as opposed to a hit. The exceptions to the generalization of skill level (in this case, handling skill, not general pedaling fitness), likely have to be pretty knowledgable and use the equipment within its limits, leveraging the best of their ability. They're not the majority. They likely have to have knowledge to at least accept the risk of riding something not backed by a reputable brand. I'd be surprised if they race the same carbon imitation for 2+ years, as I know things that don't meet expectations tend to be remedied, including an underperforming frame, as that can hamper confidence levels quite a bit. I've only seen 1 AM/enduro imitation frame out there... a thread on it mentions that LaMere and other less well known brands have chosen to rebrand it. <a class="postlink" href="http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/html_products/2015-full-carbon-All-mountain-Frame-309.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/html_produc ... e-309.html</a>
 
You seem to do a lot of assuming about the people that ride the frames. You are posting nothing but anecdotal stuff. There are several threads from fat bikes, 650, and 29er. There are plenty of guys in there that beat on their bikes and guess what...they are doing just fine. You're basically saying that only shitty riders ride the open mold frames. Why don't you post up in there exactly the way you are wording it here and see who replies to you?
 
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