"E mtn bikes r us" (rock n road) boycott?

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Faust29 said:
I like Herz's idea also, but what about moving (or adding) the point of instruction from the shop to the trailhead?

E-bike rules, regulations, etiquette... Right next to the trail maps. That (might) cause Joe Blow, who is considering an e-bike, to stop and actually think before the time of purchase.
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I don't think e-bikes are going to go away, so we better get used to it, but I think maybe they should have a special tax like commercial trucks, that is, a portion of a sale's tax should be used exclusively in the development and maintenance of MTB trails.
 
dstepper said:
I am note sure I am getting this life style argument either. I do not go into a shop looking for a lifestyle, can you really buy a lifestyle? I am pretty set in my life style no matter what sport I participate in. I am not defined by the activities I participate in I believe it is much deeper than that.

Gary that is not what I take away from the posts. It is the loss of access = any poor behavior on our trails can results in loss of access. It is out there tearing up the trails = all means of travel cause some degree of damage. A class 1 E-bike causes no more damage than regular MTB bike. It the case of the Levo the wider tires offset the more weight damage.
Dean
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A lot of people buy a "lifestyle" then they end up selling a few months later.
 
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Looks like I'm late to this thread party lol!

I dropped into Incycle this weekend as it is next door to a trampoline park we are looking at for my daughters party, TMI I know, so anyways, the VERY first bike thats is on display is a trail specific E Bike, WTF!

From what @StrandLeper noticed at Rock n Road and this Specialized dealer Incycle, its obvious there is a push on the sales model of this Evil S company to get more of these bikes out. That just makes me sad.

My intent posting on this topic is not to try and convince anyone of what I think there stance is on this topic, but to proclaim to my IMTB trail brothas that I respect their opinion, however I STRONGLY oppose the use of E Bikes for mountain biking, especially in any sort of National Forest, Park or Wilderness area. That is all ✌️
 
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Here's a parallel:

I started surfing 40 yrs ago. In Newport, to protect the tourist swimmers during summer, they introduced BlackBall. Meaning: No surfing in this area.

Did surfers cry? Some maybe but most surfed somewhere else or surfed before of after BB.

Now SUP's and kayaks share our waters and waves. Do surfers get pissed bc they have an easier time catching waves? Some maybe but others choose to surf somewhere else. I surf w them w a hint of envy.

EBikes are for people that need assistance when mtbing. They are not fuel injected. Why do you feel these folks are gonna use them to hurt/crash into people, or be complete yahoos out there?? Those already existed before EBikes.

Give this new idea a chance so others have the same opportunity to continue mtbing or discover it. :inlove:
 
I wish there was as much hate for those weird fat bikes, I don't like em just because I don't like em. They should be banned. People are going to think they are motorcycles because of how huge the tires are. That much surface are has to affect the trails too. It's a matter of time before we all die because of them. I boycot any shop that even speaks the name "fat bike".

A bike is a bike dude...
 
Being too old, fat or injured does not justify screwing up access for everyone else. I can just imagine Sierra Clubbers getting pissed at e-bikes passing by them on the trail this Memorial Day weekend. IMBA CORBA and MWBA have done a lot of work to promote a good public image to other user groups and our land managers. Let's not screw this up folks.

If you want motorized access to non-motorized trails then lobby to change the rules. In the meantime keep your motorized rig off non-motorized trails. Thank you.
 
I've been told by a reliable source that E-bikes are definitely not allowed on Orange County and State Park non-motorized trails, like Aliso and El Moro, for the simple fact that "they have motors." The biggest problem down the line may be between the individuals who buy ebikes and the bike shops they bought them from, if those bike shops misrepresented access restrictions on certain trails or within certain parks . Rangers may be forced to write tickets and there may end up being a lot of unhappy ebike owners.

Sorry Mikie, no hate or animosity here; more of a head's up or maybe a public service in advance.
 
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Erik H - MWBA said:
It's not about eBike speed, lack of or potential trail damage, etc. Its about that eBikes have a MOTOR. They are not 100% human powered. & therefore generally are not allowed on Non-Motorized Trails. Its way more cut and dry than everyone wants to admit. eBikes are MOTORIZED.
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I respectfully disagree. Motor is the law. So if you want to argue that they shouldn't be there because it's against the law, then just change the law.

Why are motorized vehicles against the law on most trails? Answer that and you will return to my argument that it is purely about conflict with and perceived (or real) safety of other trail users.

@StrandLeper I'm gonna call you out on something. Why do you have your screen name? Were you the "e-bike rider" who showed up to the surf spot and threatened their safety and wave count? Don't surfers look at SUP ers and say "you shouldn't need that crutch - learn to surf or get out of the water?"

It's eerily similar. SUPs brought tons more people out into the water. Their heavy equipment is potentially very dangerous to other surfers. SUPers may not know the rules of the lineup, and might get in way over their heads (literally) in conditions they can't handle. They have access to places that traditional surfers have to work at to get to. They catch waves easier and earlier than a standard shortboard. They can ruin a spot for traditional lay-down then stand-up surfers.

That said, I stand behind education as the only viable, long-term solution to the e-bike mtb potential problem. That or heavy enforcement of arbitrary laws (which most likely would quickly change to include ALL bikes and not differentiate between electric-assist or not).
 
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@Mikie i have been "called out".

@herzalot all very fair points. Not exactly the same. Similar.
1. I never use(d) a motor.
2. I always followed the law and before I paddled out, determined what jurisdiction controlled that particular stretch of coastline, and what the rules were (and vocally encouraged others to do so)
3. The key to SUP and surfers coexisting where SUPing is legal, was education to the SUPer and the original OC SUP surfers spent considerable time educating both the SUP surfers themselves, and the shops that were selling/ renting them.
4. I always made it a point to educate others about the law... And encouraged them to follow it.
5. I always made it a point to educate SUP surfers on the rules of the lineup.
6. Every argument that you make applies to a newby long boarder to a degree.
7. Some surfers liked to make the "crutch" argument to me... I would offer them the opportunity to try my 7'4" ... They never took me up on it. It's pretty f'ing hard. You don't just get to bob in the water on a choppy day. You are working the whole time ... Just to stay upright.
8. I never SUP'd where it was illegal to do so.
9. I never used a motor.
10. As someone who had been surfing since he was 8, and was getting stale, this was a fun new challenge. And it didn't have a motor.

Edit:you can't really equate Standup paddle surfing with e Mtn bike riding. I get the analogy, but it doesn't work. Standup Paddle Surfing is a bit more difficult than pressing a button. I have plenty of boards and paddles and we can go sometime.
 
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I gotta say this. And it is a painful subject. If the main reason that some of us, myself included, are against the marketing and use of E-mountain bikes on non-motorized trails is the possible threat it poses to our continued future access, then logically and keeping the big picture in mind, shouldnt we also be opposed to the rampant building, over-riding, and "strava-ing" of illegal trails (by human-powered bikes)? That behavior (and im not saying im innocent of it in the past) also is a possible (and probably larger) threat to our continued future access at least in heavily impacted places like socal in general and the OC Parks in particular.
 
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Strand - I totally respect your intent and your athleticism (and your ability to form an argument). I am picking at your argument a little because I see it as contradictory in overall scope.

First, I agree that a newbie on a longboard is viewed the same way by "hardcore" surfers. In fact, even worse than a newbie on a longboard is an experienced longboarder. They are the ones catching the most waves - earlier than shortboarders can. I am not saying this from my perspective, I am saying this from the perspective of a long-time, advanced-level surfer (which I am definitely not). However, I think it's analogous to us long-time, advanced-level mountain bikers.

Most of your points above have to do with the law. My premise is, the law is fluid and made by people who have the most clout. If surfers could make SUP-ing illegal, they probably would. Hikers, runners and equestrians combined have far more clout than mountain bikers. They can quickly make all bikes illegal. It's this fact that puts us both on the same page, albeit from different angles.

A "motor" in the case of a SUPer is a thick, wide board and a paddle - semantics in the eye of the offended.

I don't think SUP-ing is easy, nor do I think it should be illegal. I am using the comparison because it is highly parallel.

At any rate, this is not at all personal, I am merely pointing out what I see as parallel developments and attitudes in sports we love. I accept that I may be completely wrong.
 
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sir crashalot said:
If the main reason that some of us, myself included, is against the marketing and use of E-mountain bikes on non-motorized trails is the possible threat it poses to our continued future access, then logically and keeping the big picture in mind, shouldn't we also be opposed to the rampant building, over-riding, and "strava-ing" of illegal trails (by human-powered bikes)?
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YUP!!! Especially the STRAVA part of it. There appeared to be an accepted "truce" or "cease fire" agreement between local authorities and local hardcore riders. It's been blown wide open through social media including undeniable proof of the numbers and speeds of riders, and the marketing of formerly un-known or barely known trails.

As human beings, we just feel the need to share our awesomeness with others, and they, in turn, with us. Validation baby!

(I get mine through post count. :oops: Clearly not through "likes.")

I can't WAIT to ride my new dual crown DH e-bike up Telonics!!!!
 
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sir crashalot said:
Please explain, are you saying the oc park rangers are ok with poaching as long as a rider is "local" and "hardcore"? Thats not true.
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Nope - they don't ask for address nor gnar-cards. I don't think they ask for anything.

I am saying that the off-menu trails are ridden constantly by locals (and quite possibly more and more non-locals drawn there by friends, STRAVA or video documentation). There is almost zero enforcement of riding these trails that I have heard of. Every once in a while, there is a surge in enforcement (i.e. Marie Callendar's) and people get fined, but that doesn't last long. You and I both know people who ride the off-menu trails regularly and have never been approached or fined. Again, I could be wrong. I don't really ride with those riders (they're all better than I).
 
Of course theres almost no enforcement, theres like 3 rangers and 90 bazillion riders. Theres no unspoken truce. Ive been approached and warned, and almost fined (but im not hardcore enough, haha). Was a long time ago though. I dont really hit the off-menu trails much anymore.
Its possible that at some point, in light of all the uncontrollable poaching, the county govermnent might decide F it its too hard to enforce we'll just ban all mountain bikesrs from the parks. Trust me some people there already feel this way. Exactly what were worried about with emtbs.
And i agree, Strava makes it a whole lot worse. Blasting publicly about illegal behaviour= more ammo for anti-mtb groups.
 
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