Box components?

mike

mike

iMTB Hooligan
These came up awhile ago here somewhere. Wondering if anyone's had a chance to try their drive parts (cassette/derailleur) and can comment about their performance compared to the two big players.

TIA 4 411!
 
Good timing. I just had an appointment at BOX a few days ago and took some time to catch up with T.H. And get a tour and snuck a peak into the product development lab. All I can say is, within 5 years we will see a pretty large industry shift to BOX for critical MTB components like drivetrain. Really interesting stuff happening.

1. The Box one 11 speed derailleur.
The good: I am in about 900 miles. I paired it with an e-13 9-44 cassette and KMC chain. The performance has been the best I have ever used. Crispy drag free shifts. Through lots of sand and water, no problem. The cage retention spring is very stiff, I have not dropped a chain or heard any chain slap yet and I ride rough Sh!t. Me being a longtime Shimano XT user and fanboy, and experiencing rock solid XT units and also exploding a couple XT shadow 9 speeds, but now I will only use BOX. I like it that much.

The Bad: in just the last couple weeks 2 of the derailleur pivots developed some early wearing and have elongated holes in the direction of cable pull. That's a major bummer and explained some noise that appeared. It was still shifting fine down (up not as good), but would rattle and I am sure was causing some excessive wear. Box confirmed the early unit I had has seen manufacturing revisions and replaced it(read something about new lifetime warranty) I won't expect this wearing of the pivots to occur on newer units. I mounted a new one today

2. The BOX push push shifter.
All good: this shifter is really interesting and a web search will show some video reviews. It takes about 3 rides to get the hang of it. I love it deeply. And consider it an asset to my riding.

The bad: it's been eliminated due to Patent issues. Let's just say it really must suck trying to be an innovator when the big guys can crush you with flock of lawyers. Lucky for me I bought a spare and tucked it away before it went out of availability.

3. The New BOX 2 lever shifter. Not available yet, so I think. Just shown at Eurobike.

4. The 2016-2017 Box cassettes. It's a Budget Sunrace model branded for BOX. It's probably the most cost effective high gear ratio cassette you can find. 2 guys I ride with use them trouble free for about 500 miles each now.
 
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Very generous of you to share that info, Dustan – thank you!

BoxNoob question: In absence of a Box shifter, is the der compatible with Shimano or SRAM 11-sp shifters? TIA.
 
dustyyoungblood said:
2. The BOX push push shifter.
The bad: it's been eliminated due to Patent issues. Let's just say it really must suck trying to be an innovator when the big guys can crush you with flock of lawyers. Lucky for me I bought a spare and tucked it away before it went out of availability
Click to expand...

That's particularly crappy because I know of no one else making this. Not having the push-push kills my interest in BOX. How could it infringe on a patent for something no one is making? Any idea which company is spoiling the fun?
 
Grassblade23 said:
That's particularly crappy because I know of no one else making this. Not having the push-push kills my interest in BOX. How could it infringe on a patent for something no one is making? Any idea which company is spoiling the fun?
Click to expand...
There is most likely a very complex long story that cannot be disclosed involving several big and small players that will never make a similar design yet can still legally protect their IP to. It sucks.
 
Isn't push-push a pretty old design? I thought I had one on a bike ten+ years ago. If so, hopefully the patent will expire soon...
 
IIRC sram uses or used to use a push push on the road group. I'm going back to 2007 in my memory, so it may not be too accurate. :rolleyes:
According to what I just read it's called double tap on their Red group.
 
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Only turn off for me is it uses the Shimano hub, not XD. If it was XD compatible I would look to them for future parts, especially on my enduro bike.
 
It may be called Double Tap, but the actual function may be the same or similar. Or like someone mentioned it could be an old product that the ptent may soon expire.

I was looking into the Box drivetrain to build up my hardtail and read that the clutch is not that strong, but according to Dusty it works fine. May go back and look into again
 
Danmtchl said:
It may be called Double Tap, but the actual function may be the same or similar. Or like someone mentioned it could be an old product that the ptent may soon expire.

I was looking into the Box drivetrain to build up my hardtail and read that the clutch is not that strong, but according to Dusty it works fine. May go back and look into again
Click to expand...

I read the early media/pro test units had weaker clutch springs and chains would drop. That's changed and its very stiff. I use a wolftooth ring no chain guide and I have not dropped a chain once.
 
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Is it better than XTR? I don't know if I can say that because I don't have time on an 11 speed XTR. I think XTR users would argue against BOX for perceived differences. Time will tell.
But I will stand by my notes that its the best modern drive train I have used. The midgrade Sram models are nice, and Xt is nice. But the BOX is crispier shifting. And I bashed some rocks a few times and no break.
 
dustyyoungblood said:
Is it better than XTR? I don't know if I can say that because I don't have time on an 11 speed XTR. I think XTR users would argue against BOX for perceived differences. Time will tell.
But I will stand by my notes that its the best modern drive train I have used. The midgrade Sram models are nice, and Xt is nice. But the BOX is crispier shifting. And I bashed some rocks a few times and no break.
Click to expand...

That's a bold statement! Would have to get some saddle time on Box before I concur.
I am extremely happy with my new XT 11s, 2x11.
 
dustyyoungblood said:
Good timing. I just had an appointment at BOX a few days ago and took some time to catch up with T.H. And get a tour and snuck a peak into the product development lab. All I can say is, within 5 years we will see a pretty large industry shift to BOX for critical MTB components like drivetrain. Really interesting stuff happening.

1. The Box one 11 speed derailleur.
The good: I am in about 900 miles. I paired it with an e-13 9-44 cassette and KMC chain. The performance has been the best I have ever used. Crispy drag free shifts. Through lots of sand and water, no problem. The cage retention spring is very stiff, I have not dropped a chain or heard any chain slap yet and I ride rough Sh!t. Me being a longtime Shimano XT user and fanboy, and experiencing rock solid XT units and also exploding a couple XT shadow 9 speeds, but now I will only use BOX. I like it that much.

The Bad: in just the last couple weeks 2 of the derailleur pivots developed some early wearing and have elongated holes in the direction of cable pull. That's a major bummer and explained some noise that appeared. It was still shifting fine down (up not as good), but would rattle and I am sure was causing some excessive wear. Box confirmed the early unit I had has seen manufacturing revisions and replaced it(read something about new lifetime warranty) I won't expect this wearing of the pivots to occur on newer units. I mounted a new one today

2. The BOX push push shifter.
All good: this shifter is really interesting and a web search will show some video reviews. It takes about 3 rides to get the hang of it. I love it deeply. And consider it an asset to my riding.

The bad: it's been eliminated due to Patent issues. Let's just say it really must suck trying to be an innovator when the big guys can crush you with flock of lawyers. Lucky for me I bought a spare and tucked it away before it went out of availability.

3. The New BOX 2 lever shifter. Not available yet, so I think. Just shown at Eurobike.

4. The 2016-2017 Box cassettes. It's a Budget Sunrace model branded for BOX. It's probably the most cost effective high gear ratio cassette you can find. 2 guys I ride with use them trouble free for about 500 miles each now.
Click to expand...

With those setbacks, Box might not be around in a few years or be a very small niche player. Wolftooth, One-Up, and E-13 have been very successful at innovating and finding their niche supplying parts for the aftermarket and avoiding the OEM market. But Box needs to do something more than just being different, cause they dont have price on their side or even a direction at the moment. With that said, I've bought 3+ complete Shimano drivetrains, 2 XT and a SLX set for under $1000 total in the last year.
 
Wasn't Box a wheel company first?

dustyyoungblood said:
4. The 2016-2017 Box cassettes. It's a Budget Sunrace model branded for BOX. It's probably the most cost effective high gear ratio cassette you can find. 2 guys I ride with use them trouble free for about 500 miles each now.
Click to expand...
I've got an early Sunrace MS3 which I got right after they came out with about 1900 miles. No problems, shifts almost as good now as the brand new X01 2x10 that the bike came with.
 
Grassblade23 said:
I thought Box was just another iteration of ProMax. Apologies to Toby if I've got bad info. I first heard of them circa '12 or '13 in relation to BMX.
Click to expand...

It may have begun with distribution for Promax and Promax BMX items re-branded as BOX. That was the low hanging fruit. But from day 1 the focus always has been to bring Toby's concepts for premium MTB components to fruition. What I saw there last week was impressive. There was a real live product development team, a graphics team, sales staff, and more. I was surprised to see CNC mills and in-house prototyping capabilities and some serious work happening. Not a low budget operation at all. Much different from the first time I visited about 4 years ago. They are set up to crush some homeruns in the coming seasons.
 
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